Washing my Yeast - What to Brew Next

PhotoMan

I have been listening to the BN show with Jamil talking about repitching yeast. I currently have a Pale Ale in the primary for the past 3 weeks. I will most likely leave it there for another week and then keg it. I am interested in the process of washing and repitching my yeast.
#1 it's a shame so dump those hard-working guys down the drain.
#2 I'll save $6.99 on my next brew.
#3 According to Jamil, I'll be closer to pitching the proper amount of yest in my next batch.
I want to have everything that I will need for my next patch on hand. I want to brew right after I rack my Pale Ale. Now the questions.
#1 How do I determine if my sanitation was good enough to proceed with repitching for a new batch? I would assume if there were no mold or really strange flavors that I would be fine. However, this is a fairly hoppy Pale Ale and that might mask the taste that might signal a problem in the future.
#2 I assume I need to stay with something hoppy like an IPA, IIPA or another Pale Ale. What do you think? I was hoping to do something a little more malty to give me some variety.
Thanks for your thoughts.Drinking Kegged: Kona Pale Ale Clone
Fermenting: Chimay Grand Reserve Clone & North English Nut Brown
Up Next: Jamil's Evil Twin
To Do List: IIPA, Modelo Negra Clone, Something BIG & Malty

TheTodd

First, keg that Pale Ale.  It's done.  Primary was probably over in 4-5 days.  7-10 more days of conditioning and letting the yeast clean things up is all you need.  There's nothing wrong with waiting 3-4 weeks if you don't have a chance to keg it, but don't wait for it if you don't need to.

Next, you don't really know how clean it is unless you have a lab set up.  Just try it for the learning experience.
And, lastly, if you're just repitching the yeast, it can be whatever you like.  The only time the hoppiness of your previous beer would carry over is if you're racking onto the yeast cake that also includes the trub from your pale.Corporal, BN Army, Southeastern PA Division
Vice President--Stoney Creek Homebrewers

PhotoMan

Todd, thanks for your reply.
I thought a 3-4 week sit in the primary was preferable but this is just my second brew. I learn new things everyday. My first brew was a German Amber Ale. I let it go 4 weeks in the primary and then straight to keg. I chilled and carbed it right away because I was eager to start drinking it. It was OK but it had a bit of a green apple taste as my friends in the brew club have described it. All I know is that it didn't have much body and it didn't finish very smoothly. I assumed it was from me not letting the beer sit and condition long enough.
I may try Jamil's Evil Twin recipe off his site. He describes it as being malty but with a good hop flavor. I assume that I can split the yeast for two batches. Does this sound right or should I pitch the full amount into my next brew. The yeast cell numbers that Jamil was talking about may require the entire slurry.Drinking Kegged: Kona Pale Ale Clone
Fermenting: Chimay Grand Reserve Clone & North English Nut Brown
Up Next: Jamil's Evil Twin
To Do List: IIPA, Modelo Negra Clone, Something BIG & Malty

TheTodd

PhotoMan,
I don't know what happened to your Amber Ale.  Acetaldehyde (green apple) is typically seen in a too young beer, but 4 weeks for an ale should be plenty.  A possibility would be that it was kept too warm or that you got an aceto bacter infection.  Because you said it was thin and harsh, I suspect it was infected.
As far as splitting your batch goes, you're getting into unknown territory for me.  I haven't had the time to be able to plan ahead enough to be brewing shortly after a previous fermentatin, so I alway use a starter made from a new yeast pitch.  If you have a vessel large enough, I would say do a 1gal starter with your harvested yeast the morning of your brew just to wake them up and then put half in each fermenter.
Otherwise, I would check out as many yeast shows as I can on the BN.  You can also e-mail Jamil at MrMalty.com.  For a guy that busy, it's amazing how quickly he responds.  Or just wait 6-12 months and the yeast book will be out.
Good luck and let me know what you do and how you make out.   That way I can learn something too.Corporal, BN Army, Southeastern PA Division
Vice President--Stoney Creek Homebrewers

dontblake

After a primary, you should have plenty of yeast for 2 (or more) batches.
Check out the yeast pitching rate calculator at mrmalty.com.   IIRC when repitching from slurry, if you slide the control as far to the side that says "non yeast percentage"  the voume is something like 200ml of slurry for an ale at 1.055.    I'd bet that you have close to 1000ml of slurry in your fermenter.   Now if you wash that yeast and have a pretty clean cake, you'll need even less.
Check out   - really great guide on how to do it!Don Blake
BJCP Grand Master Judge
Fermenting: WitBier
on tap:  Cal Common, Funky yeast experiments

PhotoMan

I only thing that I can think of is that my fermentation temp did go above 70Ëš.Drinking Kegged: Kona Pale Ale Clone
Fermenting: Chimay Grand Reserve Clone & North English Nut Brown
Up Next: Jamil's Evil Twin
To Do List: IIPA, Modelo Negra Clone, Something BIG & Malty

mikebiewer

I read that thread over on homebrewtalk as well. But I had some questions about it that I posed over there as well. Maybe you guys could answer them for me. I'm really anxious to start saving yeast, if I can cut down on my yeast $$$ I can put it into more gear.
So at the end the writer says "put into fridge for use into a starter at a later date."
1. Is he referring to making a starter off of this yeast? So you take the icky brown liquid off the top and use the settled slurry in the jar to make a starter or do you pitch the whole thing into the starter?
2. How long and how many times can you use this process with the same strain?
3. Also, can you use one of these right of way as a starter and store the rest?
I am looking to make a Scottish 60 kit then reuse that yeast to make an Imperial Stout. I'm talking about using it same day or the next day. Also, with the Imperial Stout being a higher gravity beer I'd probably have to use two of these jars starting right out. But I'm wondering if I can use a couple of these as is or if I've got to make a starter OR if there is something I'm missing here. Plus, is there anyway to determine home many billions of yeasties are in something of this size so I can figure out my pitching rate?
Thanks for any advice I can get.Mike
Mike's Brew Review
Mike's Brew Review Newsletter

TheTodd

#1 store in the frig,, leave the wort/beer on top, sealed after fermentation  is done for sure
to make the starter,, poor off the wort and add more 1.040 wort to bring it back to health..
to pitch,, cold crash, poor off wort and bring back too temp and pitch the the thing..

2 I go about 4 or 5 batches/generations
3 yes  just pitch your new wort right on top of the existing yeast cake,, you dont have to clean the carboy..
you could harvest some yeast and then pitch on top if you wanted to save some yeast for future uses.
I've let a carboy sit for a day with beer on top of the yeast till ready for pitching,, poor off the beer,, poor in the new batch and watch it take off.  use a blow off tube, it will launch   only for med beers  would try to use the cake from a really big beer   1.075 ish or aboveFermenting My black IPA III
Kegged EFF IPA 10gal
Bottled = English Brown Ale, Imperial Brown Ale, .Vanilla Bourbon PorterWell my plan was to use the cake from a Scottish 60 (1.050) brew to an Imperial Stout (1.080) brew. I thought my cake would have more than enough yeast cells to start up a big brew. I read on homebrewtalk to always go up, never go down.
What are your thoughts on that?Mike
Mike's Brew Review
Mike's Brew Review Newsletter

PhotoMan

I just found the Yeast Washing episode. Going to give it a listen then possibly report back here to sum up a couple of things before I move forward!Mike
Mike's Brew Review
Mike's Brew Review NewsletterI have been listening to the BN show with Jamil talking about repitching yeast. I currently have a Pale Ale in the primary for the past 3 weeks. I will most likely leave it there for another week and then keg it. I am interested in the process of washing and repitching my yeast.
#1 it's a shame so dump those hard-working guys down the drain.
#2 I'll save $6.99 on my next brew.
#3 According to Jamil, I'll be closer to pitching the proper amount of yest in my next batch.
I want to have everything that I will need for my next patch on hand. I want to brew right after I rack my Pale Ale. Now the questions.
#1 How do I determine if my sanitation was good enough to proceed with repitching for a new batch? I would assume if there were no mold or really strange flavors that I would be fine. However, this is a fairly hoppy Pale Ale and that might mask the taste that might signal a problem in the future.
#2 I assume I need to stay with something hoppy like an IPA, IIPA or another Pale Ale. What do you think? I was hoping to do something a little more malty to give me some variety.
Thanks for your thoughts.Drinking Kegged: Kona Pale Ale Clone
Fermenting: Chimay Grand Reserve Clone & North English Nut Brown
Up Next: Jamil's Evil Twin
To Do List: IIPA, Modelo Negra Clone, Something BIG & Malty

TheTodd

First, keg that Pale Ale.  It's done.  Primary was probably over in 4-5 days.  7-10 more days of conditioning and letting the yeast clean things up is all you need.  There's nothing wrong with waiting 3-4 weeks if you don't have a chance to keg it, but don't wait for it if you don't need to.

Next, you don't really know how clean it is unless you have a lab set up.  Just try it for the learning experience.
And, lastly, if you're just repitching the yeast, it can be whatever you like.  The only time the hoppiness of your previous beer would carry over is if you're racking onto the yeast cake that also includes the trub from your pale.Corporal, BN Army, Southeastern PA Division
Vice President--Stoney Creek Homebrewers

dontblake

Todd, thanks for your reply.
I thought a 3-4 week sit in the primary was preferable but this is just my second brew. I learn new things everyday. My first brew was a German Amber Ale. I let it go 4 weeks in the primary and then straight to keg. I chilled and carbed it right away because I was eager to start drinking it. It was OK but it had a bit of a green apple taste as my friends in the brew club have described it. All I know is that it didn't have much body and it didn't finish very smoothly. I assumed it was from me not letting the beer sit and condition long enough.
I may try Jamil's Evil Twin recipe off his site. He describes it as being malty but with a good hop flavor. I assume that I can split the yeast for two batches. Does this sound right or should I pitch the full amount into my next brew. The yeast cell numbers that Jamil was talking about may require the entire slurry.Drinking Kegged: Kona Pale Ale Clone
Fermenting: Chimay Grand Reserve Clone & North English Nut Brown
Up Next: Jamil's Evil Twin
To Do List: IIPA, Modelo Negra Clone, Something BIG & Malty

PhotoMan

PhotoMan,
I don't know what happened to your Amber Ale.  Acetaldehyde (green apple) is typically seen in a too young beer, but 4 weeks for an ale should be plenty.  A possibility would be that it was kept too warm or that you got an aceto bacter infection.  Because you said it was thin and harsh, I suspect it was infected.
As far as splitting your batch goes, you're getting into unknown territory for me.  I haven't had the time to be able to plan ahead enough to be brewing shortly after a previous fermentatin, so I alway use a starter made from a new yeast pitch.  If you have a vessel large enough, I would say do a 1gal starter with your harvested yeast the morning of your brew just to wake them up and then put half in each fermenter.
Otherwise, I would check out as many yeast shows as I can on the BN.  You can also e-mail Jamil at MrMalty.com.  For a guy that busy, it's amazing how quickly he responds.  Or just wait 6-12 months and the yeast book will be out.
Good luck and let me know what you do and how you make out.   That way I can learn something too.Corporal, BN Army, Southeastern PA Division
Vice President--Stoney Creek Homebrewers

mikebiewer

After a primary, you should have plenty of yeast for 2 (or more) batches.
Check out the yeast pitching rate calculator at mrmalty.com.   IIRC when repitching from slurry, if you slide the control as far to the side that says "non yeast percentage"  the voume is something like 200ml of slurry for an ale at 1.055.    I'd bet that you have close to 1000ml of slurry in your fermenter.   Now if you wash that yeast and have a pretty clean cake, you'll need even less.
Check out   - really great guide on how to do it!Don Blake
BJCP Grand Master Judge
Fermenting: WitBier
on tap:  Cal Common, Funky yeast experiments

Henrythe9th

I only thing that I can think of is that my fermentation temp did go above 70Ëš.Drinking Kegged: Kona Pale Ale Clone
Fermenting: Chimay Grand Reserve Clone & North English Nut Brown
Up Next: Jamil's Evil Twin
To Do List: IIPA, Modelo Negra Clone, Something BIG & Malty

PhotoMan

I read that thread over on homebrewtalk as well. But I had some questions about it that I posed over there as well. Maybe you guys could answer them for me. I'm really anxious to start saving yeast, if I can cut down on my yeast $$$ I can put it into more gear.
So at the end the writer says "put into fridge for use into a starter at a later date."
1. Is he referring to making a starter off of this yeast? So you take the icky brown liquid off the top and use the settled slurry in the jar to make a starter or do you pitch the whole thing into the starter?
2. How long and how many times can you use this process with the same strain?
3. Also, can you use one of these right of way as a starter and store the rest?
I am looking to make a Scottish 60 kit then reuse that yeast to make an Imperial Stout. I'm talking about using it same day or the next day. Also, with the Imperial Stout being a higher gravity beer I'd probably have to use two of these jars starting right out. But I'm wondering if I can use a couple of these as is or if I've got to make a starter OR if there is something I'm missing here. Plus, is there anyway to determine home many billions of yeasties are in something of this size so I can figure out my pitching rate?
Thanks for any advice I can get.Mike
Mike's Brew Review
Mike's Brew Review Newsletter

PhotoMan

#1 store in the frig,, leave the wort/beer on top, sealed after fermentation  is done for sure
to make the starter,, poor off the wort and add more 1.040 wort to bring it back to health..
to pitch,, cold crash, poor off wort and bring back too temp and pitch the the thing..

2 I go about 4 or 5 batches/generations
3 yes  just pitch your new wort right on top of the existing yeast cake,, you dont have to clean the carboy..
you could harvest some yeast and then pitch on top if you wanted to save some yeast for future uses.
I've let a carboy sit for a day with beer on top of the yeast till ready for pitching,, poor off the beer,, poor in the new batch and watch it take off.  use a blow off tube, it will launch   only for med beers  would try to use the cake from a really big beer   1.075 ish or aboveFermenting My black IPA III
Kegged EFF IPA 10gal
Bottled = English Brown Ale, Imperial Brown Ale, .Vanilla Bourbon Porter