Racked first brew to secondary

nanofreak

So I racked my first brew to a secondary.  It is a Pale Ale, it came with my setup I picked up at the LHBS.  When racking, I got a chance to taste a small bit of it, seems like it wont be half bad.
So it has been in the secondary for 48 hours, after 2 weeks in the primary.  Right now it is clearing, about the top half of it is clear, and the cloud moving towards the bottom.  There is sedament on the bottom now (of course).  When I go to bottle, do I want to leave that all behing?  Is that the yeast dropping out?  Or is that something else (or everything else)?
This was a kit with 6lbs DME, and some specialty grains that were steeped.  Though it was a 5 glaaon recipe, I ended up at 4.5 gallons, so it is slightly stronger than it should have been.  I did not take an OG reading to be honest.  I didn't have a hydrometer (thought one came with the kit but didn't) though I have picked one up since.
Whatever is dropping to the bottom, should that transfer to the bottling bucket, especially if it is the yeast? Though I don't think it is because ale yeast will end up crusting the top right?  
Big question, when I transfer to the bottling bucket, how do I make sure enough yeast makes it so that when I bottle I get good carbination?
Thanks,
David

BDawg

First, congrats!
Don't worry about too much yeast dropping out.  It won't.  There will be plenty of them left in the beer to carbonate it up for you.  Just siphon off above and leave as much of the yeast cake behind as possible, but don't sweat it if some gets into the bottling bucket.
Also, it's usually best to boil your priming sugar in about a pint or so of water, and add that to the bottling bucket FIRST.  Then, when you siphon the beer into that, the swirling action of the beer coming out of the siphon will provide enough mixing action to ensure that the sugar gets mixed in wel.  Dumping the sugar into a full bottling bucket will tend to leave the mixture non-uniform, giving some flat bottles and other bottles will gush.
The biggest thing now is patience and time.  Leave it in the secondary for at least a week, or 2 if you can do it.  The extra time helps to condition the beer, since the yeast is reprocessing the byproducts that it gave off during active fermentation.
HTH and Good luck!-B'Dawg
BJCP GM3 Judge & Mead
"Lunch Meat.  It's an acquired taste....."  -- Mylo

nanofreak

Can my beer be too long in the secondary?  Is there a point where I have to worry about how much yeast is still floating in the beer vs on the bottom?  
Is there a point where aging pre-bottling becomes counter productive?  I know that not all beers age well once bottled, and I would assume say an IPA would start losing it's hop quality in the secondary if conditioned too long, but you could always dry hop at the end to counter balance that.  Other than for a reason like that, is it possible to over age in the secondary?
I can wait a few more weeks in the secondary, but I will have to keep my hands busy with brewing in order to do so.  I brewed my second batch this weekend, a milk stout brewed Brew in a Bag style, all grain.  It was interesting, and something I think I will do again.  Thanks for your reply.

mikeb

If properly transferred you can let beer condition in a secondary vessel for quite a while before it becomes detrimental.  Especially, if you have a place that is relatively cool for the beer to sit.  By your description though it sounds like you sent over a significant amount of yeast and sediment to the secondary.  This complicate matters, but ultimately I think that for this beer 2-3 weeks would not be a problem.  Many brewers (myself included) here will tell you to skip transferring to a secondary vessel for future brews.  Instead of tranferring the beer to a secondary right as fermentation dies down, let it sit a week to ten days on the yeast cake and go straight to the bottling bucket.  Just make sure to leave as much of the sludge behind as possible.  Per usual, BDawg is right on with the bottling bucket advice.Sour/Brett Beer Fermenting:  Lambic, Kreik, Flanders Red, Berliner Weisse, Orval, English Stock Ale
On Tap:  nothing
Next on Tap: Belgian Pale Ale, American ESB and Sweet Cider
Next to Brew:  Belgian Tripel and Dark Strong Ale

Spelt

In fact, sounds like you kept it two weeks in the primary.  Probably could have just bottled from there.  I like a secondary fermentation especially when I dry hop.  Usually I transfer to the secondary (without taking the sediment) after about 5-7 days.  Most ale fermentations have become pretty still at that point.  When I go to the secondary fermentor, that gives me a place to dry hop and gives me a lot of flexibility in fitting a bottling session into my schedule.
In reality...you're giving birth to your first baby.  Your gonna like it no matter how long you keep it anywhere.
Finally...you never have to worry about too much yeast dropping out to damage bottle conditioning.  After you drink a few unfiltered homebrews, your GI tract will assure you that there's still plenty of active yeast in there

nanofreak

I racked to a secondary because I knew that I took too much crap with the wort into my primary.  Mostly though because my primary was a bucket, and I just really wanted to see it already.  My seconday is a carboy.  It was meant to be a 5 gallon batch, 6 lbs DME, but came out to be 4.5 or so.  I have a packet of 2ox (3/4 cup) corn sugar to bottle.  Should I cut some of that out because it was stonger than it should have been?  Just curious.

Billy-Klubb

what's your SG sitting at now? that can be a huge deciding factor.I killed a zombie and ate it's brains. That's how I became the Zombie King.

Billy-Klubb

I am not sure, because I don't want to open it and play around in it.  When I get ready to bottle I planned on checking again (not this coming wekeend, next).  What should I consider the threshold for cutting out some sugar or not?
BTW, thanks, you guys have been great.If you want to be able to take samples from the fermenter you just need a turkey baster and some tubing.  Sanitize both and then attach enough tubing to the turkey baster so that you can reach the wort inside the fermentor.  Then you can suck up enough wort for a hydrometer sample.
If you ferment in a bucket, then you would not need the tubing as the baster could reach the wort easily.
Sean.Brown Ridge Brewing: My homebrew recipe's and brewing exploits.
SmartFoneCases.com: Quality cases at an affordable price.

nanofreak

I'd say anything above 1.015 I'd start cutting out sugar, unless you're trying to reach a higher carbonation level. but you probably won't need to. it all depends on where your SG is sitting after enough time has passed. if you're consistently getting the same reading after 3 days, then your ferment is probably done.I killed a zombie and ate it's brains. That's how I became the Zombie King.

BDawg

Thanks guys!

nanofreak

It sounds like the other guys addressed your carbonation questions, so I have nothing to add there.  However, when I went back and read the above line, I wanted to assure you that the beer is not necessarily stronger because you ended up with 4.5gal instead of 5gal.  Since you didn't have a chance to take an original gravity, you won't really know how strong it is.  Your target gravity is much more important than your final volume in determining how your beer comes out.  Just go ahead and take a reading.  As long as you're under 1.015, you'll be fine.  I suspect you'll be under 1.010 which is perfect.  Enjoy!Corporal, BN Army, Southeastern PA Division
Vice President--Stoney Creek HomebrewersSo I racked my first brew to a secondary.  It is a Pale Ale, it came with my setup I picked up at the LHBS.  When racking, I got a chance to taste a small bit of it, seems like it wont be half bad.
So it has been in the secondary for 48 hours, after 2 weeks in the primary.  Right now it is clearing, about the top half of it is clear, and the cloud moving towards the bottom.  There is sedament on the bottom now (of course).  When I go to bottle, do I want to leave that all behing?  Is that the yeast dropping out?  Or is that something else (or everything else)?
This was a kit with 6lbs DME, and some specialty grains that were steeped.  Though it was a 5 glaaon recipe, I ended up at 4.5 gallons, so it is slightly stronger than it should have been.  I did not take an OG reading to be honest.  I didn't have a hydrometer (thought one came with the kit but didn't) though I have picked one up since.
Whatever is dropping to the bottom, should that transfer to the bottling bucket, especially if it is the yeast? Though I don't think it is because ale yeast will end up crusting the top right?  
Big question, when I transfer to the bottling bucket, how do I make sure enough yeast makes it so that when I bottle I get good carbination?
Thanks,
David

mikeb

First, congrats!
Don't worry about too much yeast dropping out.  It won't.  There will be plenty of them left in the beer to carbonate it up for you.  Just siphon off above and leave as much of the yeast cake behind as possible, but don't sweat it if some gets into the bottling bucket.
Also, it's usually best to boil your priming sugar in about a pint or so of water, and add that to the bottling bucket FIRST.  Then, when you siphon the beer into that, the swirling action of the beer coming out of the siphon will provide enough mixing action to ensure that the sugar gets mixed in wel.  Dumping the sugar into a full bottling bucket will tend to leave the mixture non-uniform, giving some flat bottles and other bottles will gush.
The biggest thing now is patience and time.  Leave it in the secondary for at least a week, or 2 if you can do it.  The extra time helps to condition the beer, since the yeast is reprocessing the byproducts that it gave off during active fermentation.
HTH and Good luck!-B'Dawg
BJCP GM3 Judge & Mead
"Lunch Meat.  It's an acquired taste....."  -- Mylo

Spelt

Can my beer be too long in the secondary?  Is there a point where I have to worry about how much yeast is still floating in the beer vs on the bottom?  
Is there a point where aging pre-bottling becomes counter productive?  I know that not all beers age well once bottled, and I would assume say an IPA would start losing it's hop quality in the secondary if conditioned too long, but you could always dry hop at the end to counter balance that.  Other than for a reason like that, is it possible to over age in the secondary?
I can wait a few more weeks in the secondary, but I will have to keep my hands busy with brewing in order to do so.  I brewed my second batch this weekend, a milk stout brewed Brew in a Bag style, all grain.  It was interesting, and something I think I will do again.  Thanks for your reply.

nanofreak

If properly transferred you can let beer condition in a secondary vessel for quite a while before it becomes detrimental.  Especially, if you have a place that is relatively cool for the beer to sit.  By your description though it sounds like you sent over a significant amount of yeast and sediment to the secondary.  This complicate matters, but ultimately I think that for this beer 2-3 weeks would not be a problem.  Many brewers (myself included) here will tell you to skip transferring to a secondary vessel for future brews.  Instead of tranferring the beer to a secondary right as fermentation dies down, let it sit a week to ten days on the yeast cake and go straight to the bottling bucket.  Just make sure to leave as much of the sludge behind as possible.  Per usual, BDawg is right on with the bottling bucket advice.Sour/Brett Beer Fermenting:  Lambic, Kreik, Flanders Red, Berliner Weisse, Orval, English Stock Ale
On Tap:  nothing
Next on Tap: Belgian Pale Ale, American ESB and Sweet Cider
Next to Brew:  Belgian Tripel and Dark Strong Ale

Billy-Klubb

In fact, sounds like you kept it two weeks in the primary.  Probably could have just bottled from there.  I like a secondary fermentation especially when I dry hop.  Usually I transfer to the secondary (without taking the sediment) after about 5-7 days.  Most ale fermentations have become pretty still at that point.  When I go to the secondary fermentor, that gives me a place to dry hop and gives me a lot of flexibility in fitting a bottling session into my schedule.
In reality...you're giving birth to your first baby.  Your gonna like it no matter how long you keep it anywhere.
Finally...you never have to worry about too much yeast dropping out to damage bottle conditioning.  After you drink a few unfiltered homebrews, your GI tract will assure you that there's still plenty of active yeast in there

nanofreak

I racked to a secondary because I knew that I took too much crap with the wort into my primary.  Mostly though because my primary was a bucket, and I just really wanted to see it already.  My seconday is a carboy.  It was meant to be a 5 gallon batch, 6 lbs DME, but came out to be 4.5 or so.  I have a packet of 2ox (3/4 cup) corn sugar to bottle.  Should I cut some of that out because it was stonger than it should have been?  Just curious.

BDawg

what's your SG sitting at now? that can be a huge deciding factor.I killed a zombie and ate it's brains. That's how I became the Zombie King.

Billy-Klubb

I am not sure, because I don't want to open it and play around in it.  When I get ready to bottle I planned on checking again (not this coming wekeend, next).  What should I consider the threshold for cutting out some sugar or not?
BTW, thanks, you guys have been great.