Steep cold or hot

bcmaui

I know you have to steep the grains for 30 minutes and keep it under 170F.
Do you drop the grains into cold water and bring it up close to 170F or warm the water close to 170F first and then drop?
Or does it matter?

andy

Summarized from Jamil's Brewing Classic Styles:
Heat about half a gallon of water per pound of grain to 160F. Turn heat down or off, add grains and steep for about 30 minutes. For very dark grains you can steep in cold water overnight to keep from extracting acrid flavors and to keep flavors smoother.Last edited by Andy on Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:22 pm, edited 4 times in total.

noremorse1

I bring the temp up to within a few degrees and then try to maintain the steeping temp as well as I can. However, in How to Brew, John Palmer mentions that maintaining the temperature is not necessary.Primary -
Secondary:
Kegged: Gangnam Style IIPA, Kentucky Breakfast Stout Clone, Oak Aged Robut Porter, Your mom
Upcoming Brew Schedule: Winter Warmer, Cider, APA

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PFC, BN Army

bcmaui

Summarized from Jamil's Brewing Classic Styles:
Heat about half a gallon of water per pound of grain to 160F. Turn heat down or off, add grains and steep for about 30 minutes. For very dark grains you can steep in cold water overnight to keep from extracting acrid flavors and to keep flavors smoother.
Interesting - I steeped in the entire batch of water (6 gallons) rather than making the steep liquid relate to the grain weight.  I also brought it up from tap water temp to 160F - so a hybrid of both methods in JZ's book.
We will see what this does and maybe order the same recipe a few more times and try it different ways.
I have just purchased a BC mill and am seeing if I can modify a spare ceiling fan motor to drive it.  Is there an optimum RPM range for running the Barley Crusher?
The outside temp the last couple nights has been 68F - is this ale heaven?  The carboy is sitting in the chest freezer (that will soon become the kegerator, but is ferment chamber for the moment), as I still need to move the ferment refer out back.  
Did a good bit of work on the brewshed today and hope to have a dedicated brew space up and running soon.

bcmaui

Found it - Appendix B - with too much water I have a higher PH and will extract more tannins.  Will try again.  Following the recipe sheet from B3 might not be the best method.
So much to learn!
That is a sweet Kitchenaid cooktop and stainless countertop in the Appendix B and C photos.

BDawg

If you work at keeping it at 150-155F you will be gaining practice at temperature control in case you ever want to proceed to All-Grain and Partial Mash batches.  Plus, during the heating periods, you will have less chance of overshooting an acceptable temperature level, since the harmful temps are so much further away.-B'Dawg
BJCP GM3 Judge & Mead
"Lunch Meat.  It's an acquired taste....."  -- Mylo

andy

It does seem to be ale heaven, indeed! I have brewed about 4 batches in the last month with there fermenters sitting solidly at 67 - 68F. Great weather for brewing!
I envy your brewshed...my wife has been easy going about all the brewing equipment cluttering up the kitchen but I still feel like I'm always in the way. You'll have to post some pictures when you're done!

MyloAndybcmaui

Found it - Appendix B - with too much water I have a higher PH and will extract more tannins.  Will try again.  Following the recipe sheet from B3 might not be the best method.

In the grand scheme of things, we are talking about steeping grains here. If tannin extraction is time, temperature, and pH related - then we are splitting hairs here. Not only is the percentage of steeping grains very small relative to your extract - but the time is only 30 min, and the temp is 150 instead of 170. Could your beer have more tannins? Perhaps. Will it be noticible? Probably not. It's much more of a concern when you go to all grain.
The same holds true for the "add the bag cold" vs. "add the bag at temp" decision. Will the longer contact time with the "higher than optimum" pH of the water extract more tannins? Yes, perhaps. Will it be noticible? Probably not. Ideally, to minimize tannin extraction - your steep would be in 5.2 - 5.4 pH range. Using a tighter grist/water ratio will help with that, as the acidic, darker steeping grain will lower it. You can also add a little gypsum, too. All beer has tannins. You just need to stay below the flavor threshold, which shouldn't be a problem with a small amount of steeping grains.
Who cares? You'll be going to all grain before it matters!

Mylo"Life is too short to bottle homebrew." - Me
"HEINEKEN? Fuck that shit! Pabst Blue Ribbon!!!" - Dennis Hopper, in Blue Velvet
Although he lists the options in his book, I think JZ mentioned in more than a couple of his shows that, in his opinion, both cold water steeping of very dark grains and chemically adjusting your water to correct for pH, hardness, etc aren't really worth it in the vast majority of cases for the same basic reasons you describe.I know you have to steep the grains for 30 minutes and keep it under 170F.
Do you drop the grains into cold water and bring it up close to 170F or warm the water close to 170F first and then drop?
Or does it matter?

andy

Summarized from Jamil's Brewing Classic Styles:
Heat about half a gallon of water per pound of grain to 160F. Turn heat down or off, add grains and steep for about 30 minutes. For very dark grains you can steep in cold water overnight to keep from extracting acrid flavors and to keep flavors smoother.Last edited by Andy on Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:22 pm, edited 4 times in total.

noremorse1

I bring the temp up to within a few degrees and then try to maintain the steeping temp as well as I can. However, in How to Brew, John Palmer mentions that maintaining the temperature is not necessary.Primary -
Secondary:
Kegged: Gangnam Style IIPA, Kentucky Breakfast Stout Clone, Oak Aged Robut Porter, Your mom
Upcoming Brew Schedule: Winter Warmer, Cider, APA


PFC, BN Army

bcmaui

Summarized from Jamil's Brewing Classic Styles:
Heat about half a gallon of water per pound of grain to 160F. Turn heat down or off, add grains and steep for about 30 minutes. For very dark grains you can steep in cold water overnight to keep from extracting acrid flavors and to keep flavors smoother.
Interesting - I steeped in the entire batch of water (6 gallons) rather than making the steep liquid relate to the grain weight.  I also brought it up from tap water temp to 160F - so a hybrid of both methods in JZ's book.
We will see what this does and maybe order the same recipe a few more times and try it different ways.
I have just purchased a BC mill and am seeing if I can modify a spare ceiling fan motor to drive it.  Is there an optimum RPM range for running the Barley Crusher?
The outside temp the last couple nights has been 68F - is this ale heaven?  The carboy is sitting in the chest freezer (that will soon become the kegerator, but is ferment chamber for the moment), as I still need to move the ferment refer out back.  
Did a good bit of work on the brewshed today and hope to have a dedicated brew space up and running soon.

bcmaui

Found it - Appendix B - with too much water I have a higher PH and will extract more tannins.  Will try again.  Following the recipe sheet from B3 might not be the best method.
So much to learn!
That is a sweet Kitchenaid cooktop and stainless countertop in the Appendix B and C photos.

BDawg

If you work at keeping it at 150-155F you will be gaining practice at temperature control in case you ever want to proceed to All-Grain and Partial Mash batches.  Plus, during the heating periods, you will have less chance of overshooting an acceptable temperature level, since the harmful temps are so much further away.-B'Dawg
BJCP GM3 Judge & Mead
"Lunch Meat.  It's an acquired taste....."  -- Mylo

andy

It does seem to be ale heaven, indeed! I have brewed about 4 batches in the last month with there fermenters sitting solidly at 67 - 68F. Great weather for brewing!
I envy your brewshed...my wife has been easy going about all the brewing equipment cluttering up the kitchen but I still feel like I'm always in the way. You'll have to post some pictures when you're done!

Mylo

Found it - Appendix B - with too much water I have a higher PH and will extract more tannins.  Will try again.  Following the recipe sheet from B3 might not be the best method.

In the grand scheme of things, we are talking about steeping grains here. If tannin extraction is time, temperature, and pH related - then we are splitting hairs here. Not only is the percentage of steeping grains very small relative to your extract - but the time is only 30 min, and the temp is 150 instead of 170. Could your beer have more tannins? Perhaps. Will it be noticible? Probably not. It's much more of a concern when you go to all grain.
The same holds true for the "add the bag cold" vs. "add the bag at temp" decision. Will the longer contact time with the "higher than optimum" pH of the water extract more tannins? Yes, perhaps. Will it be noticible? Probably not. Ideally, to minimize tannin extraction - your steep would be in 5.2 - 5.4 pH range. Using a tighter grist/water ratio will help with that, as the acidic, darker steeping grain will lower it. You can also add a little gypsum, too. All beer has tannins. You just need to stay below the flavor threshold, which shouldn't be a problem with a small amount of steeping grains.
Who cares? You'll be going to all grain before it matters!

Mylo"Life is too short to bottle homebrew." - Me
"HEINEKEN? Fuck that shit! Pabst Blue Ribbon!!!" - Dennis Hopper, in Blue Velvet