Kveik Lutra vs US05 experiment

just-john

Purpose of experiment....See if Lutra tastes as good as US05 in a low ibu pilsner. 10 lbs pilsner and one pound corn with just two ounces of centennial at flame out. Yes speed is nice but taste rules.
I split the wort into two identical fermenters. The US05 went into the water trickle bath at 67degrees. (We are lucky to have cheap and cold water.) The Lutra was running about 77 in a 72 degree room.
At nine days I sampled the product. Good old flat warm beer fresh from the fermenter. Yeah I know I should let them carb and get cold etc but they aint changing that much.
So I thought about triangles and how much statistics confuses me and I just tasted them.
The US05 was as expected, clean. Nice lemon on the nose and the palate. Really tasty and clean.
Alas, the Lutra was not the same. My previous brew with it had the same thing. A over-ripe fruit smell and taste, with dirt on the taste also. No lemon. Not really pleasant. I guess these are the esters.

With all the hype about Kveik I had to try it and not having to keep the fermenter cool would be easier. But taste is the most important thing.

It was fun doing the experiment. Science and beer. Great combo.
Thoughts?

Twinkeelfool

I never thought lutra was clean at all the few times I tried it. Not bad beer sure but never super clean like people claim. Certainly didn’t want to brew lagers with it.

just-john

And yeah on YT there are guys saying it's clean. Make a pseudo lager/pilsner with it they say. Maybe a saison or something like that. It's maybe getting a little hyped. No one ever wants to knock anything. Wouldn't get the views I guess.

aceluby

Neither are going to get you a Pilsner. Blonde ales, sure, and different ones at that - but nothing really close to a Pilsner.
Lutra also has some quirks to it. It really does best in 90+ degree heat. At ale temps you’ll get the esters described in clean beers like a blonde ale. It also changes quite a bit over time in blonde ales. The esters settle and the yeast cleans itself up nicely. It becomes this slightly fruity blonde that is quite clean. I prefer it in my APAs and IPAs.
You can get a very drinkable beer in a few days, especially with the right recipe, but for a clean blonde, give it a few weeks to settle and it produces a lovely beer. Again, not a lager or Pilsner, but something that I rinse quite enjoyable.

McMullan

Have you ever tried Norwegian cuisine? If you haven't, don't bother

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It doesn't mysteriously improve going back in time either. That would be a bit weird, wouldn't it? Unlike fully domesticated brewer's yeast strains elsewhere in Europe and North America, 'crikey' weren't selected to be pleasant and refined. Put bluntly, the unfussy Norwegian palate simply didn't demand it. Hence 'crikey' are inferior for fermenting beer.

dmtaylor

US-05 isn't clean. Lutra isn't clean. Both suck at making "pilsners", but might make kind of O.K. blonde ales or cream ales. Try an actual lager yeast like Diamond or S-189. Even fermented warm, these turn out quite good.

Slim-M

I seen the hype around lutra and watched guys on the YouTube claiming these amazing results in short time

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I gave it a shot with a cream ale type beer. Fermentation went like this ambient temp was 78, fermentation temp was 90 when it got rolling, airlock blowing in 4 hours, and done in 3 days.
I left it in fermenter for 6 days and bottled it up. It carbed up in about 10 days but took 3 weeks to stop tasting like a green beer. I was not impressed and doubt I will try it again. It really never tasted all that great even after 5 weeks. It might be better suited in like a hoppy ale or something fruity.
Was this beer drinkable in a week if I would have kegged it and forced carbed? Yeah, but this was a 2 gallon batch and I was waisting keg space on that. Was it enjoyable in a week? Nope. After this I can’t help but look at these guys on YouTube who rant a rave about pseudo lagers, fast turnaround times, and super clean Kviek makes me wonder do they have taste buds or are they intentionally misleading people for the more views. Either way some of these guys on the net lost credibility in my eyes.
New brewers or guys with minimal temp control, I do pseudo lagers all the time with a quick turnaround time, but quick in my eyes is like 3 weeks but 4 or 5 is better. I pitch yeast at around 60f ferment a few days at 62 then creep it on up to 68 over the course of about 7 days. Then keg, crash, & carb. I’ve personally have done this with 34/70, CellarScience German, & Diamond all lager yeast. These turn out great. Kviek is cool and for sure has its place but just not for what I like. Sorry for the rant & sorry Kviek fans these are only my opinions which mean little.

aceluby

Have to agree. If you want a pseudo lager at ale temps, check out the warm fermented lager thread. There’s a lot of better suited yeasts for that.
With tangy, I just had some of my APA that I brewed last Thursday with lutra - 7 days grain to glass and its a damn fine beer. Will get better, but already a very good beer IMO

just-john

Yeah the previous beer with Lutra was a NEIPA and this one was actually more a cream ale - not a Pilsner I guess - but I hate that name, reminds me of hangovers from Genny "cream ale", plus dairy and beer should not mix.  I call it a "dream ale"
I just figure it's mostly pilsner malt, meant to be light clean and crisp and just let the hops show. It's a pseudo something. Like all my brews really something but never quite sure what. But the lightness of the malt and hops lets the character of the yeast show which is what I was going for in this experiment.
Thanks for the suggestions about yeasts. I think that will be my next split batch experiment. US05 vs one of those or 34/70? . My limitation is the temp that I can run with my water bath trickle set up which is about 67.

Slim-M

Have you ever thought about the poor man’s glycol chiller that just uses the coil, ice bath, temp probe and aquarium pump? Seen a few guys doing and seems to work. It’s probably what I would do if I had no freezer or fridge.

dmtaylor

You'll get something lovely with Diamond. Still needs a few weeks of aging, but can be done at 67 F successfully.

just-john

It's an idea but I would just buy another fridge at that point. Might be what I end up doing anyhow. But if I can get clean ferments at 67 I'll just keep doing what I'm doing. I've never been a huge lager lover anyhow and mostly just want a clean crisp beer with the yeast out of the way. Sulfur notes are supposed to be good? I don't get that one. Ah yes, just a hint of low tide.  

aceluby

You’d probably like mangrove jack’s California lager yeast. It’s meant for steam beers, but I’ve used it for a Helles, Oktoberfest, and a “lager” and it really is just a really clean yeast. Lager without sulfur notes (though I actually like them). It’s a nice yeast, though I still like the character of warm fermenting 34/70 a bit more