How to get lower FG

merlyone

Hi all,
I’ve done a bunch of NEIPAs and they allways end up dry. That’s ok mut for the next batch I would like to get it more sweeter. If I tweak the mash temp to 70c/158f, fg rises too high to 1.026. That’s too high for neipa, right? What else can I do?
Thanks!

Here’s the receipe:
https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/brewfather-app.appspot.com/o/f%2Fj91YE2GZCndUEmb6w2KRSPTxU353%2FBrewfather_NEIPA09RA_20221016.pdf?alt=media&token=40ef1b3d-3afa-4acd-86a4-ac36fadbcfec
Feel free to brew it! It’s a great neipa! Motueka can be changed to galaxy for example

5uxqs3nm3k3.png

merlyone

I’ve been actually brewing this with london fog yeast.
But if I want to keep mahs temp high what else can I change to get lower fg?

bracconiere

substitute some malt with sugar?

Beerstein

That seems like kind of high mash temp. You might have a mash ph or temp calibration issue. I would calibrate your mash temperature using a probe that goes into the grain bed.
One solution is to mash at the higher temp, and use sugar or dextrose to thin it down to your taste.

merlyone

There’s no problem with my mashing temp. I mean, I’ve been mashing in 67c and now would like to mash 70c to get that fuller and sweeter body.
How to achieve it when the fg rises?
I tried to add some sugar/dextrose but it didn’t do anything for the fg.

day_trippr

Sugar additions can actually contribute to dryness as they totally ferment out.
fwiw, I always use a London III yeast for neipas with FGs in the high teens as a result.
Grain bills actually favor a dry brew as I only add ~4% carapils to go with the base malts - no crystal at all - and I run the mash at 150°F the whole way...
Cheers!

DBhomebrew

For it to change FG the sugar/dextrose must replace malt, not just add gravity to it. Add 10pts of sugar, remove 10pts of malt.

bracconiere

i just want to ask, is the goal here lower calorie with the same full body brew?

tracer-bullet

Right, and also wondering what is the end result being looked for? More sweet and lower FG are sort of counter to each other.

day_trippr

That would definitely lower the FG...
Cheers!

bracconiere

+1.. if the goal here is a Brüt NEIPA with full body, i'd think give up on the pale part and shoot for a really cloudy hoppy Amber or even brown...
edit: that gives me an idea, what about lactose or xylitol, if this is a calorie objective? or hell, nutrasweet or something?

z-bob

How about adding glycerin? Or use a yeast that produces glycerol (same thing)

khannon

A little confused here.. Is it "dry" at 1.026? because this sounds like "big stout" numbers to me.. To lower the FG, you could try some simple sugars or mashing lower(to get more simple sugars), some enzymes like beano(to get more simple sugars), or a yeast that has better attenuation (lets it eat more complex sugars).
Typically speaking, higher FG == sweeter/maltier beer, lower FG == dryer beer.

bracconiere

that could be a cool "N"EIPA! popin' a bottle open would take new meaning! lol

bracconiere

but doesn't nessasarily have to be a boring flavorless one, and robust flavor 'can' impart a sense of body....kinda like black coffee, or a shot of espresso...

Kickass

To raise FG (create a perceptibly sweeter beer):
-Mash warmer
-Use malt/grain that’s less fermentable
-Avoid simple sugars
-Use a less attenuative yeast
-Reference @VikeMan ’s recipe calculator

merlyone

Thanks! I’ll try this one.
The goal is to have same or fuller body as my previous neipas (fg 1.016-18) but with more sweetness in it. I know it’s not possible but maybe to get it to 1.020 and still have more sweetness in it.
I think I’ll pass the glycerin for now


Btw what is the best low attenuation yeast for neipa? Wlp002? S04?

z-bob

Do you want low attenuation, or high attenuation but still a perception of sweetness? They're not the same thing. But for low attenuation, S-33 or Windsor Ale (they might be the same strain) are good. Also CBC-1 should do it. I don't know what liquid yeasts have low attenuation; something English.

merlyone

Thanks! But doesn’t low attenuation add more sweetness? So if I mash in 70c and use low attenuation yeast, it should work and add more sweetness to the beer?

Geezer-Glide

Had some experience making low alcohol beers. In my experience (ymmvj if you convert at higher temperatures you get more complex sugars that are not as easily converted as the simple sugars. What you may be looking for is a low attenuating yeast. Leaving the residual sugars will give you some sweetness and increased mouth feel. At least that was how it seemed to work for me.

VikeMan

Yes, lower attenuating strains leave more residual sugars (maltotriose) in the beer, resulting in more sweetness. And a 70C (158F) mash temp will result in a less fermentable wort (including a comparatively higher proportion of unfermentable dextrins and partially fermentable maltotriose) than a more traditional (lower) mash temp. I would caution that unless you have very accurate control over your mash temps, perhaps stay away from the hairy edges of traditional mash temp ranges, or risk getting a very unfermentable wort if the actual temp is much different than planned.
Also, keep in mind that maltotriose is not a particularly sweet sugar. If you want a really sweet beer, consider adding some lactose, which is much sweeter than maltotriose. It's showing up in plenty of commercial "milkshake" NEIPAs. It can also be used more subtly.
All of these things, i.e. lower attenuating yeast strain, higher mash temps, and the addition of lactose, will also increase your FG. I know you don't (for whatever reason) want a high FG in your sweet (or sweet-ish) beer, but there's really no way around that.
ETA: I just read (ok, I scanned) the recipe linked in the OP. Reducing or eliminating that 30 minute hop addition would reduce bitterness, thus providing a perception of more sweetness, without increasing the FG.

merlyone

Great, thanks! So you think it’s ok to leave it that high? I mean does it matter if the fg is 1.026? I thought there was a reason/rule for keep it low.
But if it matters somehow I’ll try your tips and try to find a balance between mash temp, yeast and lactose. Maybe I can drop it few points.

VikeMan

What matters is if the beer tastes and feels like you want it to. That said, if your main concern was that that particlular recipe ended up tasting not sweet enough, I would start with reducing or eliminating the 30 minute hop addition. There are a lot of NEIPAs being made these days without any bittering additions.

tracer-bullet

Yes, no, and no with an asterisk. The asterisk being style or goal dependent. For your goal, higher is what you are seeking.

day_trippr

fwiw, an 1.026 FG is already out of style for NEIPA, which should finish somewhere below 1.020.
I understand the OP wasn't happy with their NEIPAs finishing in the classic range for the style (mid-to-high teens), so maybe style should be abandoned in this case and the OP should just go for something most people might find cloying...
Cheers!

DuncB

I'd make it in your normal way and then back sweeten it with monk fruit extract. This is how Weldwerks add body to their Fitbits NEIPA. That is a NEIPA made to be low calorie using enzymes. The recipe is from craft beer and brewer a while ago.
I used 0.8 g per litre for a final gravity of 1.003.
This option is more tunable to your desired effect as you can experiment by the pint to get the correct taste you want.
I'd think that 0.8 g/l would be too much for a higher starting gravity, but Sup it and see.

tracer-bullet

For the sweetness.... maybe add some honey malt?

day_trippr

^Worth the experiment^, but have to be careful with Honey malt as the color can range from 20 to 35 SRM and NEIPAs definitely don't look good with even a slight brown tinge...
Cheers!