Mixing Caramel/Crystal Malts

rancidcrabtree

Today at my LHBS they didn't have any caramel 40, I needed a pound so I mixed half a pound of caramel 20 with another half a pound of caramel 60 (since they average out to be 40). Will this give me the results I'm looking for? Also, is there a general rule about mixing caramel/crystal malts to get a specific SRM?

beerman1957

I am not at my home computer, but this should work. You may have a bit more caramel taste, but probably not. When you mix caramel malts, color is just one thing affected. You have to consider some taste differences. Some taste changes would be minimal, some would be maximized. The longer a malt is kilned, the less fermentation you get. So, a lower SRM would have a higher fermentation and sweeter taste. I would suggest that you stay within the recipe if you can.
However, I do predict there would be minimal change in the profile you listed above. If anything, it would be a bit less sweet and maybe a bit richer in caramel notes.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Crystal_malt

Arkador

I have done this before. Everyone I have discussed the topic with agrees to just average it
1 part 60 and 1 part 20 = 2 parts 40
I have done the same thing before with great success. It will make a slight difference in the end result, but not enough to push you into a different style. Unless you are brewing for a competition, I say RDWHAHB

Hugh_Jass

The color should be somewhat similar, maybe a tad darker.
It will definately give a different flavor. I've found the darker the lovabond, the richer the flavor. Often, I'll blend grains to give some additional complexity to a malt-forward beer. It should be just fine.

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kyleobie

Agree that it will give a slightly different flavor but I predict you will make good beer. I like to mix crystal malts in browns, porters, etc.

Brewnoob1

This just happened to me tonight! They were out of 40 and gave me a half 60 and a half 20. Seems like this happens all the time.

ArcaneXor

I prefer using debittered/dehusked roasted malts for color adjustment and use crystal malts in limited amounts for their flavor. The lovibond ratings aren't necessarily a good guide - crystal malts from different maltsters taste completely different, and sometimes a light crystal is exactly the kind of flavor you want in a brown ale. Think of them as flavor first, and color secondarily.

Yooper

I agree. The flavor of 2 pounds of 40L is NOTHING like the flavor of 1 pound of 80L! If they were the same, the malters wouldn't need to make so many of them.
That said- I love to use a mix of crystal/caramel malts to provide interest and complexity to many beer styles. I often use 20L and 60L, for example, in a pale ale. Color is only a small part of why this malts are used- flavor is the biggest. 10L is caramelly sweet, while 120L is almost like burnt sugar/toffee. The rest range in between from sweet to raisiny. They taste nothing alike to me, but I use them all at different times depending on what I'm making.

rancidcrabtree

Thanks for the replies! I'm not too worried about it because it's only 1lb. out of a 13lb. grain-bill, with 5oz of Centennial as well, mostly I was just curious, especially if I do end up brewing a more malt-forward beer and run into the same situation in the future. If this batch turns out maybe I'll do it again with the originally planned lb. of 40 and see how much of a difference there really is.

Protos

Hi, I'm Protos and I'm the king of necroposters

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Really, I just don't want to start a new thread for a dumb question.
I plan to brew a 1.080 Baltic Porter recipe which needs 34% of Medium Crystal Malt (60L).
I have only half of Crystal that's required and I don't want to place a new online order for a meager amount of grain (no LHBS where I live, online orders only).
What you think, will a mix of 14% Dark Crystal (150L) and 20% Carapils (4L) work instead of 34% Medium Crystal?
Colourwise, it matches what C60 would have given. I just feel apprehensive to fully substitute Medium with 34% of Dark. The highest Dark Crystal I ever tried in a Baltic Porter was 15%, and the beer came out awesome. 34% of 150L looks a bit too much to me, what if I dilute it in half with Carapils?

D.B.Moody

But reasonable in your intention I think.
On the other hand, quit worring about the color. It's a Baltic porter. It's going to be dark.
Think about taste. Does your 150 dark taste like your medium? And, if you have half the medium, why aren't you using it? You only need to make up 17% if I understood your post. You might use a bit (5%?) of the 150 and just some more base. Carapils isn't a taste grain.

tracer-bullet

^ Agreed. If the dark crystal was awesome in a previous version, use all the medium crystal you have and use the dark to fill in the rest. You didn't give the earlier recipe but perhaps the 17% or so Medium available and another say 10% dark?

AlexKay

34% is too much crystal for any recipe. I’d go with the 14% dark and just skip the Carapils completely. (I don’t like Carapils under any circumstances, but 20% is way beyond the maximum you’d ever want to put it.)

tracer-bullet

That's my feeling as well, but that wasn't the stated goal, so - ran with it. Seems it's been brewed before and enjoyed so...
Recommended % is definitely a topic though, if @Protos is open to a recipe change.

Protos

I am agree, 34% Crystal, whether Dark or Medium, sounds unusually high.
I wouldn't conceive such a strange grist if it wasn't a real historical recipe from the archives. It's a Baltic Porter from the 1930s Poland.
The recipe requires 62% Pilsner, 34% Medium Crystal and 4% Black malts.
My previous 15% Dark Crystal recipe was a historical clone too (a Baltic Porter from Latvia from the same period).
Probably, a high Crystal percentage was an important feature of the style.
Frankly, just to use up a bit my surplus of Dark Crystal and to save the Medium for the two next English batches.
But now, having thought this over, I think I'm better with just adding 17% Dark to 17% Medium. And no Carapils.
I was trying to preserve the original colour balance (14:20 ratio technically achieves that) but I somehow missed the simple point: the addition of 4% Black makes any colour-related concerns irrelevant.
So thank you for pointing that out. I really have no idea why didn't I give a thought to this simple and obvious thing

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Thank you gentlemen for your fast and brilliant inputs!

tracer-bullet

There is a chance that there's a terminology disconnect? I think of Medium Crystal as 60L or so. Is there a chance the intent is actually perhaps more like 40L, or even lower? Maybe not but I'll throw it out to consider.
Strange recipe for sure. Well, uncommon anyhow. Could be delicious.

Protos

I think they hardly had a wide gamut of Crystals in Eastern Europe back in the 1930s. I really doubt they knew Light Crystal of Carapils or Double Roasted Crystal which we have now.
Lovibond 60-70 used to be the standard (if not the only available back then) colour range for English Crystals. Most probably same shade was used everywhere, so more in beers like Porter, which emulated English styles. That's why I believe it's correct to assume 60 Lov. in any pre-WW2 European recipes where Crystal is mentioned without specific references to its colour.