May I have some advice please :)

Colqld

Hi Folks,
Needing a little advice, I chose this thread because it is the closest I can find.
I have been reading a lot in the different forums but not quite sure how to find the answer I am after.
Technically my second 'run', made with the dreaded turbo yeast (sorry ) and dextrose - I currently have Wino's sugar wash fermenting.
Using a pot still and following along with the method posted by Dusty Trash (getting the most out of my air still), I made my first real attempt at a neutral spirit and added some Gin flavourings. Not ideal according to some by the looks but just starting out.
1x strip run and then 2x spirit runs
I did discard the first 50ml as foreshots
Took the next 250ml as Heads
In the main jars, I have 700ml hearts ranging between 65 - 74% abv (Holy smokes Batman)
Then took the next 500ml as Tails. Ranging between 40 - 60% abv. (I am starting cautiously as this is really the first go)
With the flavourings we are sitting at about 38%abv, don't really want to water it down to mellow it out but willing to do if needs be.
Bottled about 3 weeks ago and just had a little taste - there still seems to be a real alcohol burn/volatiles. Have I done something wrong or will this mellow in time? I do have the lids on so not airing out - is this the issue.=?
I know many people don't advocate Turbo Yeast which is why I am doing a Wino's Sugar wash to see how they differ.

NormandieStill

You seem to have cut by volume not by taste. Regardless of the recipe that you use, you're never going to get the best results possible like this. Turbo will make the cuts harder simply because there are more off-flavours present. Wino's should get you a cleaner product but you still need to collect in small jars and make your blend by smell + taste, not by some arbritrary volumes.
Also, how did you do 1 stripping run followed by 2 spirit runs? I think you might have got those the wrong way around.
You can also take your hearts cut, dilute it a little and re-run it to try and clean it up further, making proper cuts this time. If you've already added flavourings then this may not work so well."I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway" - Jimbo
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers

Dougmatt

+1 on Normandie’s response.  
Take a look at viewtopic.php?f=46&t=13261
This will help you better understand cuts.  
I’m not sure what you added as “gin flavorings” but some of those may be what’s “hot” however I find it more likely you left to much heads in given your description but hard to tell.  
I would suggest you Take a look at odin’s easy gin recipe in the tried and true section.  It’s a pretty easy gin and will get you started with a process you can grow with.

Colqld

Hey NormandieStill,
Thank you, still in the learning phase, reading as much as I can but typical noob getting a little lost.
I took my initial wash (turbo etc) and stripped 4lt down to 1lt (3x bottles). ABV was 48% for each one.
Took this down to 30% and ran the 2nd distillation - got 2 lots out of this from my original wash.
After my initial 300ml I then collected in 100ml incriments which is how I had the next 700 as hearts.  I also forgot to mention I did run through a charcoal filter as well, which I thought would take care of a lot of the remaining volatiles. Over all I ditched the first 50ml and then collected 1200ml in jars of 100ml.
One thing I think I have missed is that I popped them in the jar but didn't leave to air out over night?  Re-reading some more newbie forums again but by letting this air does this then release some of those real strong aromas?  I think this is a product of the turbo yeast which is why I am now trying a Wino's Sugar wash.
If I take my lids off and let them 'air out' will this make a difference or be a waste of time?  
I am making this for Christmas time and knew that the first couple of runs would be learning curves, I am intending with the next lot to separate into the 100mls, air out, and then blend. My current wash is taking it's time fermenting out (nearly 3 weeks now) and I have used the Bakers yeast this time around to see how this one comes out.
I guess my ultimate question is, still tasting a little like rocket fuel, can this be fixed?

Saltbush-Bill

Colqld Just wrote this out and shifted your other posts ....didn't realize that you had started again here. Mostly fixed I think. Pretty much what Normandie is telling Volume and ABV not the way to go.
Your biggest problem is that you are trying to use ABV and set quantities of spirit to judge which is good and bad ,you can not do it successfully that way.
You need to learn to judge cuts using your senses , smell and taste as well as using plenty of small cuts jars.
We all have to learn to do it , it one of the most important but basic of skills that all distillers need to develop if they wish to make good booze.
This is just one of many links about making cuts, there are many others spread around the forum, maybe others will put up some others for you .
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11640
Look for posts on making Cuts written by Yummyrum.....hes put up some good ones.
Top

Colqld

Thanks Dougmatt,
I have read this one, and will read again and again until I have more of an idea.
The gin flavourings is just the 'pre-mix' flavour that you add to neutral spirits - comes in a little 50ml bottle.  I have used a Still Spirits Elderflower Gin - essence might be a better description.  
Intending to try 'Odins Gin' but that will be a little further down the track when I have more of an idea of what I am doing.
So much to learn......
The diagram I am using, and I do apologize I think it was put up by Salt Bush Bill not Dustry Trash.  
viewtopic.php?t=80093
This was where I got the approx cuts from.

Colqld

Thanks Saltbush Bill,  I will be re-reading again. Will also keep this in mind when I distill the next wash.
It is sounding like first batch can't be saved.  Rats - might leave the lids off to see how that changes things.
Back to the drawing board

vtk5hijtxz0.gif

Also, thank for all who have answered, your help is most appreciated.

Saltbush-Bill

Lids off with coffee filters to let them breath and to keep the bugs out will help quite a bit.

bcook608

That diagram is showing what you MIGHT hope to see on each run. It's not set in stone as every wash will be different.
Since you're running such small batches, I'd recommend stepping your collection down to 75ml or even 50ml to ensure that you're getting the most chances to eliminate the jars that contain anything you don't want.
Good luck and keep learning!- New users start here
- A message to new users
- Planning your first run
- My Rigs

Dougmatt

When i do my cuts on sugar wash, I’ve learned to really avoid any jars that have the slightest “sting” in them when diluted.  That one thing alone has dramatically improved my results on sugar heads.  Dilute to absolute determiner) of where to expect the cuts to be.
Getting to a neutral tasting spirit in a pot still is very difficult.  Toss out any of those Love Brewing or other You Tube videos you may have seen.  They're strictly to push flavoring essences to mask the "bity-ness" of 1x distillation.  You're likely gonna have to do 3x (or more).  I would recommend getting the botanical basket that clips into the underside of the lid & fill it with some copper saddles to help your end-game product.
Use that search bar in upper right of the HD screen.  There's lots of good advice, recipes, procedures for AirStills.There are two times of year:  FOOTBALL SEASON and... Waiting For Football Season

rubberduck71

I'd put another fermentation bucket into service.
Strip all your batches. Make cuts or not.
Combine stripped batches and make tight cuts.
Dilute to about where a barrel strength finished distillate will render. Run it.
Make tight cuts again.
Add your gin flavoring adjunct incrementally.  Take days to do it.
Unless I don't understand what you are doing.....Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.

LWTCS

Good Morning all,  
Firstly, big 'Thank You' to all who have answered my post, gives a newbie some confidence.
I will be putting second fermentation bucket in place (LWTCS) as otherwise it is going to take a little too long for what I am intending.
In saying that the extra bucket will also give me another practice of working out heads/hearts/tails.  
I like the idea of the copper saddles in the gin basket(Rubberdick71), this is something I have read about but info on this seems to go both ways - some say it does help, - I do use the ceramic saddles in the still itself.
Biggest take away for me I think is get a second bucket going, get the copper saddles, chuck the first 50, collect the next 200 and set aside, then collect in jars (might take these down to 75ml) and air them out overnight then do by taste / smell.  Smell should be an interesting one, I don't have much of a sense of smell at the moment due to Spring - darn hayfever

fhhanabet51.gif

Lids off, coffee filters (Saltbush Bill - read a lot of your posts)
Lets see how the next wash goes - updates in around 4 weeks?

Colqld

I would add the copper. Worst case scenario it doesn't do anything different than the ceramic (if you believe the doubters) and best case scenario it prevents sulfides from being brought over into your distillate. Why not take the preventative course?
Also, I would collect everything after the first 50-75ml into jars so you can see/smell/taste how things evolve throughout your run. At least while you're getting the feel for how to run. Once you have a few runs of the same recipe under your belt, that probably won't be necessary because you'll know you never put anything in from (for example) jars 1-3, but it'll still be a good exercise to see if you can taste/smell any differences between them.
Also, if you're having a hard time detecting the smells/tastes you want to eliminate, some people dilute down below 40% while tasting to pick up the more subtle nasties that might be present. So if you have a couple of jars that you're unsure about, take another sample and dilute it even more to see if it helps make those elements more pronounced. I did this with my last run and I was very happy to know that I saved myself from a couple of jars that would have ruined the white dog (for unaged drinking). If I were barrel aging, it would have been ok, but I wanted to keep a large portion of this last batch white.- New users start here
- A message to new users
- Planning your first run
- My Rigs

bcook608

Uh, that's RubberDUCK, but I have been called worse!!!   

wmuqwcexgyx.gif

I also use the ceramic saddles as boil control -- they help prevent pukes from big bubbles being "chopped up" into small ones.
If/when you go to whiskey/rum/tequila:  the 1.5 technique is a great time saver & way to bring over good flavor from your ferment.
Duck <-- emphasis on the U!   

gmniaswqrh5.gif

There are two times of year:  FOOTBALL SEASON and... Waiting For Football Season