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Safety of enamels and ceramics

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Post time 2022-10-14 18:08:08 | Show all posts |Read mode
First of all, I fully endorse, agree with, and to the best of my ability follow the safety rules here. (Same for all the rules, but we're talking about safety at the moment.) I've done some searching and I haven't really found a whole lot that I consider a suitable answer, so here goes. Can anyone comment on the safety of using enamel coated ferrous pots, or of glazed ceramic cooking vessels?
I know that stainless and copper are the preferred metals for stills, and all that I use in mine. But I would like to learn, for purely academic reasons (and perhaps to be able to give a good answer if anyone ever asks me the same question), is it known to be safe or unsafe to use either an enameled steel or cast iron pot in any bit of the system which comes into contact with alcohol? For example, let's say a friend of mine says he wants to build a still using one of those large enameled canning pots. He's going to replace the lid with a stainless or copper bowl which he can solder his fittings to, and he's going to use a flour paste seal, meaning that he will be making zero modifications to the pot itself and therefore have no exposed steel. While I would start off by telling him that he would be better off with a keg or a large stainless pot, I want to be able to definitely say "this might/definitely will poison you" or "not ideal, but there's no immediate safety risk." Currently, I don't have the knowledge to answer that. All I can do is to say that the HD community would probably take a dim view of the idea, that I tend to trust you guys, and that I wouldn't recommend it for that reason alone. But I never have been one to accept "because I said so" as an answer, so I figured I'd ask and hopefully learn something.
Ceramics are actually more interesting to me personally. I had a "partly cloudy" (it's like a brain storm, but nowhere near as impressive or significant) regarding using a large ceramic crock pot as a small still. The logic being that the gentle, even heat would prevent scorching of things like gin botanicals, mashed grains, fruit pomace, etc. I know that the ceramic pot is food safe, though that doesn't take hot alcohol vapors or other byproducts into account. I also know that some people use some ceramics as reflux column packing, so there must be some that are known to be safe. The idea would be to make a metal (or maybe oak? glass?) lid for the pot, to which I would attach the condenser. Only safe and approved materials used, naturally. Seal it with flour paste. Turn the pot on and let it go. This would presumably be for a stripping run, unless making gin. For the sake of argument and of learning something, I'm far more interested at the moment in learning whether it would be SAFE, not whether it would actually be a good use of my time and resources, or whether it would make a good still.
Again, I am not trying to push anyone's buttons, buck any trends, break any rules, or cut any corners. I am merely trying to learn and have not been able to do so on my own yet. I am hoping that someone here can help with that.Steve, you’re way behind time. This is not 38, but it’s old 97. You must put her into Spencer on time.
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Post time 2022-10-14 18:53:15 | Show all posts
Steve,  on the enamel coated ferrous pots. I know that alcohol contact with ferrous metals forms a number of things that probably are not great.
The enamel coatings that I have encountered are often prone to cracking and chipping, I know nothing of the exposure properties of enamels though." you can pick your nose and you can pick your friends; but you can't always wipe your friends off on your saddle" sage advice from Kinky Friedman
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Post time 2022-10-14 20:13:18 | Show all posts
Could you share your knowledge with us?
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Post time 2022-10-14 20:24:31 | Show all posts
Enamel coatings are essentially glass, we are referring to vitreous enamel of course, and as such should be safe. I would imagine a well cared for and unmolested enamelled pot would serve as a boiler just fine. Same for ceramics, basically a refined natural material that I can't imagine causing problems, doubly so if enamel glazed. Most of my experiences with enamelled things suggest that are pretty durable, though I'd ditch a pot with clear evidence the enamel is damaged.----------
Zed
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Post time 2022-10-14 20:48:54 | Show all posts
Could you share your knowledge with us?Huge, there are a number studies that show the corrosive properties of ethanol on ferrous metals. I would prefer to not post the links as I am satisfied as to the validity of the research but can not be 100% sure and would prefer to leave any definitive and technical safety advice to the mods

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" you can pick your nose and you can pick your friends; but you can't always wipe your friends off on your saddle" sage advice from Kinky Friedman
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Post time 2022-10-14 22:44:47 | Show all posts

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If I knew that old ceramic crock pots would ever grow valuable, then I would have kept the one my family had a long time ago when we sold the ranch and migrated out west.   My grand-folks had one crock of about 20 gallon capacity, that they used to  make dill pickles in occasionally.  It was big and clumbersome and got left behind.
Vitrified ceramics have been food safe from time immemorial.   I'd trust a sip from glass or ceramic storage bottle or jug with just a cork;  any day, over a storage flask made from silver, copper or stainless steel.  

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https://ceramicartsnetwork.org/daily/ar ... ng-ProcessOmnia mea mecum porto
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Post time 2022-10-15 06:24:44 | Show all posts
Just a note on ceramics - there’s plenty of commercial products that are produced from clay stills. One of the most prominent being mezcal. Nothing wrong with using a big clay pot…although I’d still prefer metal because it’s a better conductor, lighter and easier to handle and so onLast edited by Renhoekk on Sat Oct 15, 2022 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post time 2022-10-15 07:09:03 | Show all posts
Just to make sure the distinction is clear, there is a difference between ceramic and enamel. An uncoated pot is pretty certain to be food safe (unless made from contaminated clay) but many of the glazes often used to cover ceramic and make it watertight and decorative contain heavy metals or other toxins.
I have many enamelled iron cookpots which I love and use near daily for cooking. But I would hesitate to use them for distilling. The enamel is cracked (crazed, not missing bits) and the rim where the lid contacts is not enamelled. I like the idea of a ceramic still and have a potter friend who might be able to make one but I would avoid enamel as a "safe" material until I saw definitive evidence."I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway" - Jimbo
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
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