Is it safe or not

Grandad7

I have a few litres of neutral spirits @ 92% ABV after having done stripping runs with a pot still then a spirit run with the reflux still.
My plan was to dilute some to 40% ABV and run it through a carbon filter then make some gin.
Odin's Easy Gin calls for 1 litre of 43% neutral.
My understanding is that you should NOT put spirit above 40% ABV into the still for a run.
In other words it should be kept below 40% ABV.
That's the info I get from the forums.
Can someone please clarify?
Cheers,

NZChris

Either use his method, or don't. It was posted on the forum in 2013.

Grandad7

So, is it ok to re-distill at 43% ABV?
If so, what about 47%?
If it is not safe above 40%, why is the recipe still in the Tried and True Recipes?
Cheers,

Grandad7

Update:
Just diluted to 41% ABV.
Still in the danger zone...but will give it a go.

Dougmatt

How much more dangerous is 40% than 39%? There has to be a cut off somewhere. You think your alcometer is that precise ? The rule was to discourage 60% thinking it would get you closer to azeo. Not to stop 3% from holding back one of the most widely celebrated gins in the community."Come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine!
You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
Shine on you crazy diamond."

eljefe3126

The recipe is tried and true because it’s awesome. And has helped a lot of people (including me) make a great gin as it’s written.  There is a bit of discussion about this topic at the end of the T-n-T thread.  Some dilute, some don’t (I didn’t).  Here’s Odin’s word on it:
So you choose.

Saltbush-Bill

My years of experience as a safety professional and my reading of several threads in this forum lead me to this:
The primary hazard of running a high ABV through a spirit run is fire.  Obviously, ethanol is flammable.  Water is not.  Once you cross some level of concentration, the flammability hazard begins to increase dramatically.
To be graphic, you are heating a liquid that is similar to gasoline past its ignition temperature.  You still need an ignition source for it to catch fire and burn...but at those temperatures, all it takes is a little spill, and you now have several liters...or gallons...of "gasoline" on fire...and depending on how you distill, that could be on fire within your home.
There is no industry-wide standard on what percentage of ABV is "safe".  That triple-distilled Irish whiskey?  10,000+ gallons at about 70% ABV go into the final distillation at the Midleton distillery.  Now, can you accidentally knock your rig over if you stumble and fall into it?  Let's see you knock over a 40,000-liter pot still...some of the hazards you have to contend with as a home distiller are not the same hazards the pros have to deal with.  I'm pretty sure they have an evacuation plan and insurance that covers distillation.  Do you?
Here we have a standard of 40% ABV.  Time and experience have shown that most home distillers can work with ABV up to that level without burning themselves up, so long as they observe all the other safety precautions discussed on this site.  Beyond 40%?
I would argue that many people cannot measure so precisely that they can ensure that 40% on the gauge is not really 41% or 42%.  We know that isn't exactly as safe as 40%, but how much worse is it?  Possibly not enough to make a difference.
45%?  50%?  60%?  Like the Clint Eastwood movie, "Well, punk, do you feel lucky?"  As a safety professional, I would advise you to do a fault tree analysis, identify all the potential safety hazards, all the controls to those hazards, and how you intend to verify that all those controls are in place for every run.  If you aren't qualified to do a fault tree analysis, then maybe you shouldn't play with concentrations much above 40%.
The speed limit is 60 mph for that stretch of road.  If you go 61 mph, are you going to crash?  It is more dangerous, but not enough for alarm.  65 mph?  70 mph?  100 mph?  "Do you feel lucky, punk?"
The "speed limit" is 40% ABV.  If you wear a crash helmet, have a vehicle with a full roll cage, a 5-point harness, and flame-retardant clothing, you can probably try Dead Man's Curve at 80 mph without killing yourself.  But if you put it into the ditch, be prepared to explain to the nice officer just what you were doing and why.

Yummyrum

That about covers it, and is something that all newbs should give some thought.

bunny

Yeah that Shineon .

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Grandad7 , make the bloody OEG .

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Your still won’t explode

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….. and if it does at 43% , it was probably going to at 40% . You sound like the cautious type , so chances are yiu have risk assessed everthing else .
You’ll be right mate .My recommended goto . https://web.archive.org/web/20171228074 ... ory/theory
Some of it is outdated but most of the basics are correct .

TwoSheds

If you are seriously worrying about the 43% in your boiler you should be absolutely paranoid about that 96% you're collecting in a mason jar on a less than steady shelf over your head.

Grandad7

That about covers it, and is something that all newbs should give some thought.I agree on this, but also think it's worth thinking about the safety of the COLD liquid. At 40% and room temperature if a little leaks out and you don't notice it until you have lit your burner you can probably just kill the flame and deal with the spill. At higher proofs you might instantly have a nearly invisible fire to deal with!
Just another thought.
TwoSheds

NZChris

Yeah that Shineon .


Grandad7 , make the bloody OEG .


Your still won’t explode

….. and if it does at 43% , it was probably going to at 40% . You sound like the cautious type , so chances are yiu have risk assessed everthing else .
You’ll be right mate .Thanks for the input.
Yes, I still intend to make it.
Got the botanicals macerating already.
Will run it through the S/S air still at 75% power (around 200 watts).
Cheers,

Saltbush-Bill

You're painting a picture that is far more graphic than the reality.  There isn't going to be an explosion without the optimum air/fuel ratio and an ignition source, regardless of whether the still charge is 39% or 43%.  The greatest danger is burns from doing something stupid like pressurizing the still or knocking it over.
Don't drink and distill.

NZChris

Painting a picture yes....is it a fact of what we are doing ? Yes again.......is it a picture worth looking at carefully?
If it saves an accident then yes again imo.

Saltbush-Bill

I don't see any point in perpetuating myths promulgated by news agencies, TTB, prohibitionists, Youtube, Facebook, newbies etc..
Distilling is a safe hobby unless you do stupid stuff because you didn't do the necessary research.

NZChris

Ok Chris ..you have the last word......you seem to like it that way.

still_stirrin

I doubt I'll ever see a Youtube of someone exploding an Airstill with 43% in it, I just don't think it's possible.  You are all welcome to prove me wrong by making it happen and posting one.
I have got one if you can tell me how to make it happen.

eljefe3126

Safety when distilling is important.  But this forum does not operate your individual equipment, hence the general "rule of thumb" for safe operation.  For example, if your still is pressure rated above atmospheric (ambient) temperature and pressure, then it may be safe to operate in the "critical zone" above 40%ABV.  But the website will not promote that operation as "safe".  You must assume your own "level of risk".
I have a stock pot potstill that I heat with a (modified) power-controlled hotplate.  The lid of the stock pot is held in place with a dozen small binder clips, so it remains sealed at nominal operating pressures but could potentially "burp" if excessive internal pressure would build up.  With normal low wines charges (or a gin maceration at 43%ABV) the stock pot does not come close to leaking, even with greater heat input which would increase the vapor production rate.  I've never had a vapor leak for the system.
But, I recently made an absinthe and my goal was to collect the spirit up to 75 or 80%ABV, for bottling at 70%ABV (ref. Duplais method).  So, the maceration of the high purity neutral (95%ABV) was diluted to approximately 50%ABV for redistillation.  I was attentive to the stock pot as I first heated the maceration so it would not heat too fast and create excessive boiler pressure.  Once it was boiling, which started rather quickly because of the higher charge %ABV, the boiler behaved well.  But, it was obvious by the "bulge" of the stock pot lid that there was vigorous evaporation inside the boiler.  Initially, the spirit collected off the spout was around 80%ABV, much higher than normally produced by the potstill.  And my bottled absinthe was between 70 and 75%ABV, making it easily 70%ABV after the coloring maceration was completed.
This example should help you understand the potential danger as the boiler charge %ABV is increased above the recommended 40% for safety reasons.  As noted, 40%ABV is not "a brick wall" limit, but a recommended guideline.  Just be aware of the dangers if your boiler charge is higher.  And I recommend understanding your equipment's operational "quirks" before pushing the boundaries.  Also, distillation experience is fundamental to safe operation in the extreme regions of our hobby.
Always ... be safe.  And be responsible and discrete.
ssAttention new distillers: Cranky's spoon feed info
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still:  stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K