Best / easiest way to add copper contact on a existing still

Evil_Dark

Hi guys!
Not really a newbie here. I do some all grain whiskys, neutrals and brandys. But I then realized that I don't have much copper in my setup, and while the usage of copper to remove some chemical compounds in whisky is a bit contreversial, all the real distilleries have big copper stills...
So I want to know what would be the easiest way to add copper contact on my 25ga still? I have 2in column and shotgun condenser. I also have a 2in 5 buble plates built with copper plates, but I don't use it in pot still when I do the whisky.
I do have a worm coil in copper that I could use just to let the spirit flow through at the exit of the condenser if it can help.
I was also thinking to insert a rolled copper sheet in a stainless pipe and add this at the exit of the boiler, in the vapor path just before the condenser... Not sure if it is a good idea?
I can also put some copper sheets in the upper part of the boiler walls, or add some copper packing in a column (with no reflux) just to add copper in the vapor path...
What would be your solution/ideas?
Thanks!Evil_Dark

bunny

Why do you think you need more copper?
Does your product taste bad?
Does your wash/mash smell like sulfur?
Does it smell "meaty" like when you drive by the Burger King at noon?

Evil_Dark

Well, I don't know. I just realised that I have no copper contact at all when I strip and spirit run in pot still mode when I do my whisky, and I think that could be an issue...
I have severals barrels to fill to make the real deal, so I don't want to mess anything up! There shoud be a good reason for all the real big whisky distilleries to use full copper stills and column (like remove sulfide compounds)?Evil_Dark

Ben

A small chunk of copper scrubby teased out and loosely stuffed into your riser is enough. Just make sure you get the all copper scrubbies, not the clad ones.:)

bunny

I don't have a great answer for you.
However you have not answered my questions.
Does your product taste bad?
Does your wash/mash smell like sulfur?

bunny

How do you know that is enough?
Do you have any data to back this up?
Does your wash/mash smell of sulfur before distilling?

Salt-Must-Flow

My still is all stainless other than my reflux condenser and shotgun condenser. The only copper I use is 4 rolls of copper mesh at the base of my column/riser. That's all I've ever used it appears that's more than plenty. When the mesh was newer, the lower rolls would turn dark after a run while the top rolls were not. I took this as a indicator that a reaction is occurring and if there were a lack of copper then they should have all turned dark.
You could always throw copper bits in the boiler.

bunny

Does your wash/mash smell of sulfur before distilling?

Evil_Dark

Sorry you are right, I didn't answered your question

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I don't think I have sulfur smell or taste, but honestly Im not really sure to be able to actually know how to detect these kinds of flavor. Are they very unpleasant and easily detected?
I've made very good rum, neutrals, and good UJSSM's whisky like, with nuclear aged techniques that turned "okay". I do enjoy good bourbons and scotchs, so UJSSM are'nt near as good as the real ones. My All grains turned out not so good, but didn't aged them properly yet. That's why I turned myself and bought real barrels (1 gallons, 3 gallons and 5 gallons) to fill and age.Evil_Dark

Salt-Must-Flow

Does your wash/mash smell of sulfur before distilling?Nope. Never has before.

Ben

Is your recommendation to make bad product before easily adding an ounce of prevention?
It's a few bucks of copper mesh and moments of your time. Why would you not... I guess you could mess around and smell and taste every mash and worry about the slightest hint of sulfur, or you could just think ahead a little and nip the potential problems in the bud. One less worry to improve the relaxation during a run.Last edited by Ben on Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:28 am, edited 2 times in total.:)

Salt-Must-Flow

The rolls of copper mesh supports my random packing anyway so it's a win win.

Saltbush-Bill

Bunny does a wash need to smell, of sulphur before distilling to  make a sulphurous smelling spirit?     The only time I have ever smelled a bad sulphur smell was  when someone used a solid stainless plated column, " no copper at all" the wash smelled fine........the end product was not fine.

bunny

Maybe if you had smaller and better packing support you could get more overhead clearance or more packing depth.
I would consider that a win.
Is your recommendation to make bad product before easily adding an ounce of prevention?
It's a few bucks of copper mesh and moments of your time. Why would you not... I guess you could mess around and smell and taste every mash and worry about the slightest hint of sulfur, or you could just think ahead a little and nip the potential problems in the bud. One less worry to improve the relaxation during a run.I'm recommending not making a stinky wash/mash unless that's required in the recipe.
You have not answered the question.
Does your wash/mash smell of sulfur before distillation?
Is an ounce enough?
Backup data please as to correct amount copper needed.

bunny

I have no idea.
Thanks SBB, your example however seems to be the only time you have smelled a sulfurous spirit.
Could you elaborate a little more on the wash/mash for context.
Where do you think the sulfur came from?
Did the odor remain or dissipate?

Sporacle

The  other option is to have small sections of copper (I use offcuts from my builds) in the boiler.
Mine get a good soak in bacset for a few days prior to going into the boiler and they now pretty much live in there.
Never had a sulphur smell and have absolutely no science and don't know if it works, just like I always give the throttle on my chainsaw a quick double blip before I stop it, don't know what it does I just do it" you can pick your nose and you can pick your friends; but you can't always wipe your friends off on your saddle" sage advice from Kinky Friedman

Twisted-Brick

I think sliding a sheet of copper inside a portion of the vapor path of a pot still is a great idea.  My (copper) still doesn't require it, but as long as the copper sheet is installed properly and can't fall back into the boiler, I don't see the downside. The copper is inexpensive and could be easily removed for cleaning. There are other compounds beside sulphur that copper helps to mitigate, one of them being dimethyl trisulphide (DMTS), which is described as rotten vegetables and is of particular interest in the production of scotch whiskey.
Of course, one wouldn't be able to determine the flavor impact to one's distillate by adding copper until doing so and performing a side-by-side comparison.  
To paraphrase the conclusions in this  paper,
So, placing copper in the pot can also help. Switching to a copper condenser presents an option that doesn't involve adding some form of copper into the vapor path.Last edited by Twisted Brick on Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.“Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore, always carry a small snake.”
- W.C. Fields
My EZ Solder Shotgun
My Steam Rig and Manometer

Demy

There are many posts about copper in contact with the distillate, in the search bar  write "sulfur compounds", I think it will help. In general, it is always recommended to have copper in contact with the distillate.

Yummyrum

I believe that many of the commercial stills have a Catalyser module that has a Copper honeycomb .
I can’t find pic of one now , but I remember it looked something like this sort of thing .(snatched pic off CCSC)

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On a DIY level ,you can fill a module with a bundle of copper pipes . If you solder them all together you’d have a very similar Catalyser to what the commercial stills use .
Otherwise you’ll need yo use meshMy recommended goto . https://web.archive.org/web/20171228074 ... ory/theory
Some of it is outdated but most of the basics are correct .

Oatmeal

Probably pieces of copper in the boiler.Warning: slightly inebriated novice!

NZChris

You didn't tell us anything about your boiler, so I don't know what to suggest.

SDEngr1

I cut some short "rings" from 1/2" tubing...semi-flattened them and place them in  my 180 degree elbow between the dephlegmator and  final condenser. I have also placed them in the column in a 6" straight section but in the column the rings will act as an additional distillation plate which may be good or bad depending on what you are trying to do. Above the dephlegmator it has no effect on raising your distillate proof.

BrewinBrian44

So, placing copper in the pot can also help. Switching to a copper condenser presents an option that doesn't involve adding some form of copper into the vapor path.I had one batch of honey bear bourbon that randomly had issues with this. The distillate had a smell of cooked vegetables, meat and a tinge of rotten eggs. The wash smelled and tasted normal though.
I’ve found that wads of pure copper mesh in the boiler and riser seem to work well. They can be purchased on Amazon.

squigglefunk

pure copper mesh rolled up like a pumpkin roll and placed in the vapor path is the easiest way for me... seemed to work even when my still was all stainless...
I now also have a copper riser/column and copper liebig condenser
never had a sulfur smell come off the still.
Only had one wash ever smell of sulfur which I blamed on pitching the yeast too hot and stressing it out. The smell dissipated after a few more days of fermenting and did not affect the product at all. I gave a jar of that run to a friend and it was raved about at his camping trip by all who tasted it. Best moonshine ever was the most common response apparently.
does copper do magic things or not? I don't know but does it hurt to throw a little in there?

Evil_Dark

Okay so I went with the copper mesh, bouth a 100 feet roll of 100% copper mesh on amazon for 60 $cnd.
I am running a 100% corn on the grain today, I added the copper mesh on the vapor path. I'll see hom much of the mesh get discolored afterward, It' give me an idea of how much sulfur was caught by it!
Can we clean the copper mesh with a 5-1-1 solution (like the normal copper parts) ? Or I have to throw it away and put new one after it is too dirty?Evil_Dark

BrewinBrian44

I’ve found no need to clean it. It builds patina just like the inside of a copper still. Works well for me.
I just give it a good rinse with hot water after a run, unroll it and let it air dry.

Saltbush-Bill

You don't need to clean it every time.
If you do clean it a soak in hot dunder for a short while then a rinse with clean water is enough.....if you want to spend money then citric acid is cheap and will do the same job.

Dougmatt

I throw it in the boiler right after a run and let it all cool down together.  Works like a charm for me.

jonnys_spirit

You should clean it first time with a sac run to remove any cutting oils from the manufacturing process that are probably left behind in the copper mesh.
Cheers!
-j————
i make stuff i break stuff
water into whiskey into water
just getting started in home distilling - been drinking for decades
16g copper pot still, 10l alembic, and a column or two
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