Christmas Ale Extract Kit and Yeast Experiment

Architect-Dave

So, I am getting a Christmas Ale recipe kit (extract) from Norther Brewer. It comes with S-04. There is information on the product page about a T-58 yeast that seems to be great for a holiday beer - but it is not an available yeast for the kit when you purchase it. The recipe requires two packets of yeast.
I am thinking of using one packet of S-04 (the recommended dry yeast for this beer) and one packet of T-58 (adds spiciness and fruitiness, supposedly). So, any thoughts on this? I asked them the same question and they responded with 'sounds like they may compete and create off flavors.'
Since all of you have been so helpful with some of my other questions, seeing what you all think and can offer in advice.

pvtpublic

Yeah, if you throw them both in to the same vessel, they will compete. It would be best to split the wort into two primaries and put one in each for a side by side comparison.

Architect-Dave

Thanks.

CascadesBrewer

S-04 seems like a good choice for the kit. It is a fairly mild flavored English strain. In my experience it gives a bit of classic English esters but less than some English yeasts. I have not used T-58 myself, but it is Belgian yeast. How familiar are you with Belgian beers and do you enjoy them? It would take a bit of knowledge to combine the spices added to a typical Christmas Ale with the mix of clove, pepper, banana and bubblegum type characters that many Belgian yeast produce.

Architect-Dave

I am leaving it out. Doing some research on the T-58 strain, it needs to ferment on the cooler side in order to minimize the ester tastes. I am fine with the peppery and clove-ish profiles, but the banana is not something I want presenting in this beer. Especially because I am going to add mashed Woodward Reserve cherries to the fermenter after two weeks (cherries in bourbon). I am looking at a Petite de Bourgeon (spelling..?) sour ale for use with the T-58.

Architect-Dave

I got a response from my inquiry with the yeast manufacturer for T-58. Figured I would share it.
“The first thing I want to say is that, if you want, one sachet of 11.5g is more than enough to brew 5 gallons, you can have exceptions if you expect to reach a high level of alcohol like 14% ABV and more,
That being said, if you want to mix two yeasts it’s totally doable, for example we have some breweries in Belgium who are mixing the SafAle S-33 and the SafAle T-58 with great results,
I don’t have feedbacks about this mix T-58/S-04 so I can’t anticipate the results you’ll have at the end, one thing I’m sure is that one yeast (probably the SafAle T-58) will “dominate” the other, meaning that it’ll be the first to use the sugars and express its profile, the second yeast will only arrive behind and use the leftover sugars, they will not work really together at the same time,
I would be happy to hear your feedbacks if you do this experimentation.”

madscientist451

I'd make 2 batches and then blend the results to suit your taste. Also, if making 2 separate batches, you can save the yeast and use it in another batch.
Interesting that some breweries are using S-33 and T-58 together, thanks for posting!

Northern_Brewer

T-58 is not a very "Belgian" yeast, it's a lightly phenolic version of its close relatives Windsor and S-33. So in terms of ester production it's like those two, but with a bit of light pepperiness on top - in that regard it's probably the least-bad dry approximation to many British yeasts (which in the real world outside US yeast labs are often slightly phenolic).
So it would work OK in many British styles, especially blended with something like S-04 or Nottingham. But don't expect loads of clove from it.

dmtaylor

I have tried T-58 several times over the past couple of years. I have not been happy with it. Everytime I use it, I think to myself "this beer would have been so much better if I had used X yeast instead." It's not phenolic for me at all, and the esters are very mild. Not an exciting yeast at all. If you are looking for something interesting, try any other yeast instead. BE-134 might be the best choice for you, I find it phenolic and slightly fruity, though it ferments relatively dry.
S-04 is extremely clean and lager-like for me. I use it when I do NOT want any yeast character. It is a tool in my toolbox that I will use frequently. It has high attenuation, ferments fast, and flocculates well. I think it might even be better than US-05 and BRY-97, a great substitute for other so-called "clean" yeasts. It's similar to Nottingham too, in my experience, though Notty might have a little more esters where S-04 really does not.