Hops at 60 minutes - any flavor or just bittering

hotbeer

Curious, in general, about how much flavor and aroma actually comes through for the 60 minute hop addition.
If I need to substitute a hop at this time does it really matter if the taste and aroma notes differ greatly from the recommended hop as long as it's alpha acids are about the same or I correct amounts to give the same alpha concentration.
The other hops at 30 - 0 would remain the same.
This is for a Porter, but it'd be pretty much the same result for all styles wouldn't it.

khannon

I've been known to use magnum or warrior hops for the 60 minute boils for a lot of styles. I'll just adjust for the IBUs I want. There are probably others that say diffeently, but I have not noticed a difference, nor have those drinking the beer.

AlexKay

Very little flavor or aroma at 60 minutes (or, for that matter, at 30.) I still might hesitate using something otherwise totally inappropriate (i.e., Citra in a Porter).

brewbama

I believe not as much flavor survives the boil. When I want flavor I add in the whirlpool @180-140°F or dry hop.

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Survivables: Unpacking Hot-Side Hop Flavor - Scott Janish

scottjanish.com

Kickass

I frequently substitute 60 minute hops for what I have on hand. Even more so in a style that’s not hop forward, ie porter.
Out of curiosity, what are the hops you’re substituting?

IslandLizard

I find most hops used in bittering leave their own distinct, underlying background flavor and aroma. While they are most noticeable in subtler hopped beers, and usually overshadowed by later hop additions, especially when used in larger amounts (Pale Ales, IPAs, etc.), they're still there.

hotbeer

I've all of a sudden worn myself out on IPA's, Pale Ales and such. I have the malts and hops to do a another brew or two, but I just don't care to at the moment.
I'm planning on a Sweet Stout / Milk Stout beer. I've noticed that recipes I've looked at frequently call for Northern Brewer hops at 60 min and later Fuggles, Golding or some other hops that typically are aroma hops or rather low alpha acids type hops.
Simcoe is what I have a lot of that I'd like to get rid of. It has the pine notes similar to Northern Brewer, but it also has the citrus notes that aren't typical of the Porters or Stouts I've looked at.
So I guess I'm just asking if too much of that citrus side will come through for about 9 grams of Simcoe in a 5 gallon batch at 60 minutes. Actually I'm thinking of about 4 grams of Simcoe for a 2.5 gallon brew. I just scaled it up to make it easier since most use 5 gallon brews.
Also, I notice that quite a few recipes use the Golding as the only hop or other hops that are typically considered flavor hops early in the boil instead of using a typical bittering hop. But I suppose the small quantity and price difference really isn't a big hit to the pocket book as might a IPA with a huge amount of hops being stuffed in.

hottpeper13

When the JUST BITTER WITH MAGNUM hit the scene I bought a pound and substituted it for the Perle in my Kolsch house ale,meaning I've brewed this countless times, and it was way not the same beer. In beers with a lower IBU and maltier profile the bittering hops make a flavor contribution.
I like northern Brewer as a bittering hop in amber and brown ales,have not used it in a porter or stout.

Miraculix

There is surprisingly much left flavour by certain hops. A very good description of which type of hop leaves which type of impact when used with longer boiling times is given in Scott Janish's "modern IPA" book. In general, noble hops leave more than c hops, but there are also some American varieties that can leave a lot during longer boils. The book is really worth a read.

DBhomebrew

I like the mint Northern Brewer can bring to dark beers. On the other hand, citrus and chocolate can be absolutely delicious.
Same beer, no. Delicious, quite possibly.

hotbeer

A quick search didn't turn up that exact title. Is it perhaps "The New IPA: A Scientific Guide to Hop Aroma and Flavor" or do I need to look a tad harder?
Thanks for the recommendation.

Miraculix

Yes that's the one, sorry for the imprecision.

hotbeer

I don't live near a LHBS and I've got the dark and chocolate hops already coming this week. I leaning toward doing the Mackeson Stout 1952 recipe, but substituting some Briess Dark Prinz and Breiss Chocolate along with some Harlequin Hopps instead of Golding.
I suppose I can just use all Harlequin as I'll have plenty. But I was wondering if I could stretch out the Harlequin over several brews buy using another hop for the 60 minute addition and not have to worry much about it's impact totally trashing the beers appeal. I'm okay with it not being the same. Just not wanting it to be like the last beer I made with poor choices for last minute substitutes and having a weird taste combo.
I could hold off and get more proper hops, but I'd rather get something in the FV this weekend.

lumpher

Since there are hops that leave more or less flavor than others at 60, if I don't have the 1 I need, I look up a suitable substitute, especially if I'm not familiar with it. That should get you close enough. I've used this page for years. It 's a little outdated in types of hops, but I still like it.

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Cheat Sheet: Hop SubstitutionsWhat do you do when you are unable to find the hop variety your recipe calls for? This hop substitutions list will get you out of hot water!

www.homebrewersassociation.org

okiedog

Thanks to Miraculix for suggesting the book by Scott Janish: "The New IPA" The New IPA: Scientific Guide to Hop Aroma and Flavor - Scott Janish
Hops in the boil certainly do add flavor, to your brew. Some hops varieties add very little flavor, others very noticeable flavor. If you want more flavor from your bittering hops, I suggest adding them as first wort hops (FWH), as I do for nearly all my brews, except for those that I want to have little or no hop flavor.

hout17

I've heard Simcoe adds a nice smooth bitterness boiled for 60 minutes something I've been meaning to try in an IPA. Supposed to be an excellent dual purpose hop.