what retuns to the boiler on a reflux column

Setsumi

what returns to the boiler?
I am pretty sure it is sweet water.
I run a 5 plate flute, today just as the plates loaded I saw a droplet on my triclamp, while fiddling to seal it I tasted the drop. sweet water not a hint of alcohol. also not realy like tails. I tasted a few drops over say 5 minutes before I manage to seal it up. I understand it is only one data point but I am pretty sure returns to the boiler is water.My first flute
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Yummyrum

Interesting question setsumi .
Water has to be one thing that is returned but other things will be as well throughout a run and these will vary .
One things for sure , there will be a lot of alcohol being returned for most of the run as can be seen by the lack of fogging on the bottom window . Only when tails are compressed and starting to come out the spout do the windows start to fog showing there is no more ( or sweet bugger all ) alcohols left so therefore it would be basically water going back toge boiler .
Now at the start of the run , mostly heads are coming off .
If you concider that each plate holds about 150-200mls , thats almost around a liter on a 4-5 plate still .
So if you are taking off about 2 lites of heads in a typical run , you could be pretty sure that for most of that period , some heads , tails and a shitload of ethanol are being returned to the boiler ....  not to mention some water .
As the heads finally come off then there will be ethanol tails and water being returned .
Finally the heads are all out and the ethanol comes over , but again as the plates can only hold up to a liter of liquid , and several liters of hearts can be taken off , it stands to reason that a lot of that ethanol is still being returned to the boiler along with tails and water .
Well thats my take on it .


Having said all that , I have had the occasion to do the finger lick you are talking about and yeah , I agree , thats kinda what I thought too . I can’t explain why it doesn’t taste alcoholic other than the alcohol has been quickly evaporated from the drips due to the heat of the metal .
At the start of the run there most surely will be alcohol of one sort or another and at least the sweet taste of ethyl acetate up in the still .My recommended goto .
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ion_Theory

Setsumi

yummy, thanks and i hear you, BUT.. it seems to me once a fraction enters a column it will stay there. provided your column is efficient enough to cycle it to the full enrichment and returning water. otherwise cuts would be pointless?
at a start run on a column fores will migrate to the top, the heads will stack antd the ethonol that entered will stay in the column just cycled between the plates.  because the fraction of each is not that large. yes you still have a portion of each in the boiler but deminishing as time goes.
ja i know, it is not that easy...My first flute
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Cletus_Spuckler

Im with yummy in that at the start of the run there is water, plus a ton of alcohol being returned. At the end of the run, this becomes mostly water/fusul oils.
One way of looking at it might be that during eq, once the column is fully loaded, all additional condensate (alcohol and water) is returned. Assuming you are boiling off alcholic vapour from the boiler faster than what you are taking off, alcohol must surely be returning back to the boiler.
Thats my guess anyway!
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Setsumi

there are 3 other things to consider than just the liquid depth on the plate. one is not all the alcohol enters the column at the same time, 2 is that the liquid in the column is NOT the only space occupied by the alchohol there is a large portion of vapour in the column. and 3 is enrichment of the beer charge from the pot vapour at say 51% (first distil cycle) to +90% happens in the column.
not saying you are wrong but if I remember correct Flying dutchmen had a thread on enrichment of alcohol, it happens when phase change occurs. so the vapour above a plate will have a higher % alchohol as the liquid on the plate. if the downcommer returns alchohol to a plate below it will vapourise again. so if it happens on the middle plate it will happen at the bottom plate as well?
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LWTCS

Reflux ratio, collection speed, plate count (actual or theoretical) all contribute to there being no single answer.Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.

Bushman

If you had a takeoff available at each plate I think it would just give us the same information that has been stated above.  I loved those experiments that Mash Rookie did with his glass columns to see what was happening during a run.  I like the idea that different things are falling depending on where you are in the run.For New and Novice Distillers
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Setsumi

yes I enjoy reading Mash Rookies threads even while he is not here enymore.  I envey you that were able to visit with him in person. I remember he placed a bowl in his kettle to catch returns but I think it did not work well but cant remember why.My first flute
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LWTCS

Didn't work because it flashed as I recall.Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.

Yummyrum

Captainshooch did such an experiment Here  on CCSC forum
Here’s a sneaky pic , the rest is there .

1mhijo001np.jpeg

Here are some results
So surely even if you had 65% abv on the bottom plate the overflow flow from that plate would still contain more than just waterMy recommended goto .
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ion_Theory

The-Baker

Is there or could there be any advantage in actually drawing off distillate from individual plates?
Either for a particular use;
or to maybe put into feints so as to allow the 'normal' distillate to be better (stronger?  tastier?   less taste as in say vodka?   )
Some commercial set-ups seem to have the taps as shown here....
and it must be for a reason.
GeoffThe Baker

HDNB

What does Jimbo say about in theory and in practice?
there obviously would be differences, but would it be worth it? maybe... if you were running a 4 story tall 96 plater, but in our world cuts in a jar seems to be the more practical solution.I finally quit drinking for good.
now i drink for evil.

Setsumi

So surely even if you had 65% abv on the bottom plate the overflow flow from that plate would still contain more than just waterthanks Yummy, from the abv of the bottem plate it looks likely that alchohol will return.  but I wonder how much will revaporize before returned because of the temp?My first flute
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Setsumi

thanks, on your humper tower is it possible to get the complete alchohol volume in the column before you start drawing product? and if it is possobile, how long does it take?My first flute
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googe

When you mentioned watery taste it made me think i've experienced that at some point but couldnt remeber. I found it tonight in my side by side still thread where i had put a drain on the return pipe for testing return distilate abv etc.... i said "Just tested the drain, took fores then put it in full reflux, sample was 30%, very watery tasting, next to no burn".Here's to alcohol, the cause of, and solution to, all life's problems.
"Homer J Simpson"

Odin

In my thinking what returns must be at least single distilled. Otherwise an inverse situation - temperature wise - would establish, which would basically hinder (or rather: exclude) vapors traveling up. I'd say a perfectly tuned column in terms of performance, desired abv, reflux ratio, etc. SHOULD return what's only single distilled in terms of abv. If the column returns higher proof than single distilled, it isn't working optimally and creating inefficiencies.
Regards, Odin."Great art is created only through diligent and painstaking effort to perfect and polish oneself." by Buddhist filosofer Daisaku Ikeda.

LWTCS

thanks, on your humper tower is it possible to get the complete alchohol volume in the column before you start drawing product? and if it is possobile, how long does it take?
If you are including the inline thumper as part of the column assembly then yes I believe so by virtue of the max fill volume of the thumper and the deeper liquid beds in the original 3 plate column.
The combined max fill volume in the entire apparatus exceeded the amount of alcohol contained in a full kettle charge of beer.
Alcohol shifting was what I was trying to do. Not returning any previously distilled alcohol back to the kettle while simultaneously not returning any water to further dilute any remaining alcohol in the kettle.
I never did install any sample ports or judiciously placed thermometers to confirm at what point would have been the most optimal time to kill the 100% reflux mode and collect product. But I did later install a sight glass with the goal of using a visual indicator  to collect product before the thumper filled high enough to drain back to the kettle.
Once drainback starts to happen, the system then runs less optimally.
As far as how long it takes to shift all of the alcohol into the apparatus? Well that depends on how much heat you're throwing at the kettle. Right? And how much water intrusion you are willing to allow. I never take notes and my refluxing  times varied depending on what I wanted as finished product. But usually how much time did I have to play before I had to go out and cut the grass.
I may have made note of time on one of the YouTube videos. Lemme check and see.Last edited by LWTCS on Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:25 am, edited 1 time in total.Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.

Setsumi

Odin, if the column returns a single distilation abv I think it would starve. to me googe's number of 30% is more acceptable because the way a column enrich a charge must means that a smaller % is returned than enters.
reading LWTCS comment on the sight glass in the thumper to be able to draw poroduct before return to keep efficiency high I reluctantly agree that alchohol is returned to the pot during a reflux run.My first flute
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LWTCS

Definitely. Put a trap at the take off port to prevent vapor escape and draw off of the 3rd or fourth plate for whiskey LM style.
Can prolly do VM with no issues on a batch system too.
It's just a matter of building an elegant way of tying all take off ports into your PC is all.
Horizontal,  cross flow PC would ne easiest for dealing with all of the different take off elevations.Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.

LWTCS

Odin, if the column returns a single distilation abv I think it would starve. to me googe's number of 30% is more acceptable because the way a column enrich a charge must means that a smaller % is returned than enters.
reading LWTCS comment on the sight glass in the thumper to be able to draw poroduct before return to keep efficiency high I reluctantly agree that alchohol is returned to the pot during a reflux run.
A 4 plate column running very high RR is not the same as , say, a 20 plater with low RR with respect to what gets returned to the kettle as column bottoms.Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.

The-Baker

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RockinRockies

Thanks, LWTCS.
I have saved your comments at the very top of the Distilling section of my notes; and if I ever do get a plated still (and before I actually set it up) I will perhaps try to understand this better and then ask you for more help and information.
GeoffThe Baker

Chauncey

I seem to have tails through my whole run, or at least in my interpretation, running 3 bubble plates, that grungy tails-y flavor somehow pollutes my entire run. Even with all plates loaded. Maybe scrubbers will produce a cleaner product but so far, I'm not pleased with my flute, to the point I'm going back to strips and spirits

Chauncey

old thread but regarding the OP, often times the outside of the still is hot enough to boil most alc in a droplet on the outside but not the higher BP stuff as quickly. it also depends on the time its been running down the metal.
  my old copper still, which had earned the name "paste mountain" because of the number of places that had to be patched on it, if not done right would leak at the bottom of the at the bottom of the cone/top of the main barrel.  the "cape" if you will.  not cap.
well those leaks would taste different the further down they made it and would only go so far until totally gone.  about 8 inches was the longest they made it down toward the bottom.  they also could be longer at the end of the run.
they would leave a stain in the patina so i was able to observe this
When people tell me I'll regret that in the morning,  I sleep till noon.

NZChris

if you search there are several flute/reflux operation threads that have come up fairly recently.
When people tell me I'll regret that in the morning,  I sleep till noon.

RockinRockies

Is the smell evident in the wash?  An ingredient?  Sulfides that are not being removed in the boiler and riser due to a lack of copper?

Yummyrum

The column is 100% copper, except site glass. Not evident in wash

Saltbush-Bill

That sounds like a classic case if running too much power to the boiler .
Crank the power down . 2.5kw to 3kw  should get you in the happy zone ….. iff’n you are running a 4” …. and stop those tails dragging through . The higher you run it , the more tails you’ll pushMy recommended goto .
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ion_Theory

Setsumi

Yummy jumped in right before me, I'll almost  guarantee its not the stills fault.........your either using to much power to the boiler.....or taking to much product to fast...........not enough reflux...........pretty much the last two mentioned are one and the same.
How  many litres an hour you pulling of that thing?I really don't give a rat's arse what  the numbers are or how many watts your running.......slow the take off down and use your taste buds to run the still......not all the other shit.

RockinRockies

if you search there are several flute/reflux operation threads that have come up fairly recently.+1
You need to search some threads how to run a flute/plater.... on the other hand, even a flute/plater do much better with low wines. Myself took a while to grasp that but do strip a couple and run low wines for a spirit.My first flute
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Yummyrum

Well I'm also figuring it has something to do with the fact that I'm running cloudy washes with an agitator so that might have something to do with it

RockinRockies

Thats good advise to help dial it in from Salty .
The thinking is that that will mean the still is operating with a pretty high reflux ratio and the stuff coming of should be pretty clean .
But if you can taste tails at this point ,(assuming you are still in the heads-hearts part of the run ) it’s most likely that you are pushing too much power. So play with the power settings ( while maintaining a small takeoff rate ) until its clean with no tails dragging through .
This is as much power as your still can handle . Now you can start playing with slowly increasing takeoff rate .
If you don’t start there and just keep trying for max takeoff and max power you’ll never find the good spot .
I know this from experience and was about to throw mine in the scrap bin .
I also agree with Setsumi about stripping first and running low wines . It makes a huge difference .Plated stills don’t run the best especially on low ABV in the boiler .
An 8” still is a big bugger and not what I would consider home distiller size , and as you have elided to , your boiler is probably on the small size .  

l43oevkyhcn.gif

So you probably would really benefit from stripping a lot if fermentations and running low wines in the smallish boiler you have .My recommended goto .
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ion_Theory

Setsumi

8" is insane as I've discovered. I mis calculated and saw big numbers in my head when I acquired it.

shadylane

I get what you are saying. The still is certainly hot enough to boil the alchohol off leaving the sweetwater only. Not that I am willing to repeat it to test your theory but something I will investigate should it happen again.My first flute
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shadylane

fzwwspvuqud.gif

I'm a firm believer that stripping first makes better liquor.   
Doing a "one and done" with a reflux still, means the crud and tails in the pot will get boiled for hours.
I figure it's better to strip, so much of the crud and tails are removed before the spirit run.

Hügelwilli

Now that you mention it, leaks do seem to get longer towards the end of a run.  

bctm3j101tp.gif

Ben

This is my answer to the OPs question:
At a stable situation (constant heat, constant product take off) the returning liquid has the same temperature like the up-traveling steam. And this means that the returning liquid has the alcohol strength of one theoretical plate less than the steam. And this means that the liquid what returns back into the boiler has the same temperature and the same alcoholic strength like the liquid in the boiler.
Apologies, this was wrong.
Of course what returns to the boiler is what leaves the boiler minus whats taken off as product.
So when there is 10kg/h steam with 50%abv and you take off 1kg/h 90%abv, something like 9kg/h with 45%abv flows back into the boiler.

RockinRockies

If you want I would be willing to bring my 4" down to you sometime, do a run with you and see if we could get something with a flavor profile you like better. Maybe working with a smaller column would help you figure out what's going on with your larger one. The take off rates will not be anything like you are used to though...:)

Chauncey

If you want I would be willing to bring my 4" down to you sometime, do a run with you and see if we could get something with a flavor profile you like better. Maybe working with a smaller column would help you figure out what's going on with your larger one. The take off rates will not be anything like you are used to though...You are in Denver metro? We have a four inch column as well but the run time is slow competitively. We have quite a few barrels that were about to pitch. That would be cool to meet up and I'd gladly share what we've got so far. If you want to pm me that would be cool

RockinRockies

you say you have tails thru the entire run, when does the bottom glass fog up?
When people tell me I'll regret that in the morning,  I sleep till noon.

Yummyrum

Towards the end after we are decidedly in tails, wet dog time

RockinRockies

Towards the end after we are decidedly in tails, wet dog timeFogging windows is not due to the presents of tails , but rather due to the lack of Ethanol .
If you run a plated still too hard , it will drag the tails through . The windows will not be foggy because there is still plenty of Ethanol which due to its lower surface tension , keeps the windows clean .
When ever I read about Wet Dog or cardboard on a plate still I have to think that its running too hard and being more like a pot still . Tails on a plated still run correctly  taste nothing like damp dog or cardboard .My recommended goto .
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ion_Theory

Chauncey

I'm confused because I'm not getting the output that an 8-in column should get it's probably cuz the boiler is too small but I don't even know what size would be need to run obviously I'm not going to go that route.
The funk that is grungy and tailsy is familiar enough to me that I'm calling it wet dog or cardboard but I'm not tasting it it's when I smell it in our jars and the proof drops precipitously towards the end of the run

Ben

maybe its the ferment, bruh
When people tell me I'll regret that in the morning,  I sleep till noon.

RockinRockies

Running the smaller column, keeping the take off (relatively) slow would help you diagnose if the problem is in your brew side, or still side. That would cut your diagnostics tree in half. Even though it is slower, if you can create something delicious the extra time spent could be worth it. If you still can't get something you want to drink it would point to a recipe/ferment problem.
You also run a ton of unmalted grain, which at least to me always has an initial off flavor (we talked about that in another thread). Your recipe seems like kind of a rum/whisky hybrid and that might also be bringing some of the flavor.
Stripping with the 8" and reflux turned off, then running the 4" for your spirit could be a way to save a bit of time if it turns out the big column is just too big. You could also try reprocessing some of the distillate you are unhappy with through the 4" if you find the smaller column to produce a more favorable profile.
I live about 45 minutes outside the city.:)

drmiller100

Thank you sir for your assistance and if you're interested in trying some of our sweet feed that we used enzymes with instead of adding sugar I'd be happy to share some of that sometime

Saltbush-Bill

There are limits. Oneimit is you are pulling NO alcohol. In this case the liquid dripping out is the same ratio as the vapor going up.  
The other limit is you are pulling MAXIMUM alcohol.
The max limit is that the stuff dripping out the bottom of the column can NEVER Have less alcohol than what is in the boiler.   
So for a 10 percent wash, the drips are 10 percent at max takeoff rate at 95 percent.
For a 10 percent wash the vapor off the boiler is 50 percent alcohol, 50 percent water.  
So the MAX possible efficiency is 40 percent for a 10 percent wash.
The bad news is the water takes 3 times the energy per pound as does alcohol.
This is why continuous is SO much more efficient.

Hügelwilli

Yummy I think different people interpret the smell of tails in different ways ......tails from any of my stills ....pot still, plated columns 4 and 6 inch, T500 when I still had it , and the 3 inch boka all smell of wet dog / wet moldy carpet/ wet cardboard.......its hard to explain exactly but I still say wet dog is a fair description for most people. I guess its like the other cuts , some people smell em better , some taste to see whats what , some do both.

Yummyrum

50 - 10 = 40 is the maximum possible mathematical efficiency, that's right.


We have discussed it already somewhere else. Seems you want me to write the same things again.
There is no energy loss, so there is no energy efficiency difference between batch or continuous. And you can run a batch still to 0abv too. Of course all the energy needs depend much on how insulated the stills are.

squigglefunk

Yummy I think different people interpret the smell of tails in different ways ......tails from any of my stills ....pot still, plated columns 4 and 6 inch, T500 when I still had it , and the 3 inch boka all smell of wet dog / wet moldy carpet/ wet cardboard.......its hard to explain exactly but I still say wet dog is a fair description for most people. I guess its like the other cuts , some people smell em better , some taste to see whats what , some do both.No argument there Salty .I know you make damn good stuff so I trust your judgments.  


I guess I’ll have to trust that my senses in the tails end are different to others …. I get that  . My tolerance to the heads part is much better than most .
We are all different . … but the bell curve of our combined senses would be an interesting peek .My recommended goto .
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ion_Theory

squigglefunk

I get all kinds of tails from all kinds of different runs, this last one was banana/honey and there was very little funk in the tails, loads of banana and honey flavors. My final blend went heavily into them. I put some on third generation oak, some on new charred oak, and am saving some white. The backset was delicious too. I tried saving it but it has a thick white cap growing on it that is pretty scary looking.

drmiller100

fwiw, in my limited experience the most wet carboard/soggy doggy smells comes from AG blends. tho I don't get it as bad from all corn mashes.

drmiller100

50 - 10 = 40 is the maximum possible mathematical efficiency, that's right.


We have discussed it already somewhere else. Seems you want me to write the same things again.
There is no energy loss, so there is no energy efficiency difference between batch or continuous. And you can run a batch still to 0abv too. Of course all the energy needs depend much on how insulated the stills are.Ummm.  A continuous still can run near 90 percent efficient pretty easily.
2 gph of 95 percent on 4500 watts on a 10 percent wash for my continuous stills
Gph is GALLONS per hour.

Hügelwilli

50 - 10 = 40 is the maximum possible mathematical efficiency, that's right.


We have discussed it already somewhere else. Seems you want me to write the same things again.
There is no energy loss, so there is no energy efficiency difference between batch or continuous. And you can run a batch still to 0abv too. Of course all the energy needs depend much on how insulated the stills are.Aren't you one of the people who says if you stir the pot it boils faster?   Is that just for a normal reflux stil

Setsumi

You must confusing me with someone else. I never wrote that.
The batch still also collects almost all the alcohol like a continuous still. At the end both had to vaporize x amount of almost azeotrope. The energy for this is always the same. The way to the azeotrope needs energy too, but gives everything back again.

drmiller100

Are there a difference between a continuous still return % abv and a reflux still return % abv to the boiler? If there is a difference, can you explain why? And, I presume a potstill without passive reflux should return zero %  abv to the boiler? If the last is true then theoretically one can have a reflux column tall enough to return zero %  abv to the boiler?
Okay zero is extreme, even for a continuous. But lets say 'very little'.My first flute
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SetsumiBen

Pretty easy to get under. 5 percent alcohol back into the boiler for my continuous.  
In fact, as close as it is to get azeo the EXACT same theory gets 0 out the bottom.
With a batch still you have to lift a lot of water out of the boiler which gets returned to the boiler.
With continuous the only WORK dine is lifting the etoh from the top of the stripper out to the condenser.
Someday I hope to figure out to explain this better. It makes a huge difference in speed of a run, but you can't get any flavor through. Useful for neutral or fuel but thats about it.
Yes, one limit with a pot still is nothing gets returned to the boiler.  As you run this still more and more energy gets used to boil the water.  Water has a 3 times higher latent heat of vaporization which is why a pot still slows down over s run as the easier etoh gets boiled off.Because its more profitable than rerunning them, stacking them, and throwing them out in the end.:)

Setsumi

Because its more profitable than rerunning them, stacking them, and throwing them out in the end.I understand profit margins. But to put it back after you have taken it out is just stupid from an energy perspective.
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Ben

Unless they are part of your desired flavor profile... JD is the best selling whisky in the world, they have an interest in consistency of flavor, whisky nerds are the minority, not the majority, so as long as JD tastes like JD the clientele doesn't care if it's headsy or tailsy (which it is).
Old No. 7 is a profit engine, it's nothing to do with quality or craft. The more of the stuff they put in their, filter and barrel the more they bottle, the more profit they get. They don't give a shit if it gives you a hangover, or if it is harsh, that is part of the brand. If something can go through the process, and be on the edge of drinkability, in it goes. People still love it, it works for them, it's become a global standard.
What doesn't get the cut they use to burn off their charcoal, nothing is wasted, it's all carefully calculated.:)

drmiller100

Larry's LWCTS stills are continuous with flavor. They don't try to  drive beyond 120 proof (from my memory) yet get most of the alcohol out and toss the fusels.
he has some great posts on it.
I was wrong in this thread.

drmiller100

Pretty easy to get under. 5 percent alcohol back into the boiler for my continuous.  
In fact, as close as it is to get azeo the EXACT same theory gets 0 out the bottom.
With a batch still you have to lift a lot of water out of the boiler which gets returned to the boiler.
With continuous the only WORK dine is lifting the etoh from the top of the stripper out to the condenser.
Someday I hope to figure out to explain this better. It makes a huge difference in speed of a run, but you can't get any flavor through. Useful for neutral or fuel but thats about it.
Yes, one limit with a pot still is nothing gets returned to the boiler.  As you run this still more and more energy gets used to boil the water.  Water has a 3 times higher latent heat of vaporization which is why a pot still slows down over s run as the easier etoh gets boiled off.I find it difficult to believe that commercial continuous wiskey stillers would put all the crap flavours back into a complete neutral. Why would Jack Daniels deliberately flavour their product with heads and tails?
I still need to figure out why a batch reflux column behaves different from a continuous column or even a pot still in terms of %abv returned to the boiler. Why does the physics of distillation changes between a batch reflux and a continuous still?
But I am back to Odin's and googe's numbers and accept that a %abv do return to the boiler.
Edit. Okay on the difference between continuous  and batch, I do get that on batch you need to move the ethanol-water water out of the boiler where on continuous you inject the ethanol-water at flash point. My question is; is there a point where the same conditions exist in a batch column as in a continuous column?In the interest of trying to help learning I'm going to pick a nit.
The column BELOW where you inject the hot beer is why you can drive the boiler to near zero etoh.
Just like the upper column purifies the stuff to higher azeo, the lower column purifies the stuff to mostly h20.
It does it with plates.  And it takes as many plates to drive the bottom as the top.

Setsumi

Thank you.My first flute
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Setsumi

See drmiller's last post.... I still rate Jack as shit.
1 van 44My first flute
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Setsumi

Pretty easy to get under. 5 percent alcohol back into the boiler for my continuous.  
In fact, as close as it is to get azeo the EXACT same theory gets 0 out the bottom.
With a batch still you have to lift a lot of water out of the boiler which gets returned to the boiler.
With continuous the only WORK dine is lifting the etoh from the top of the stripper out to the condenser.
Someday I hope to figure out to explain this better. It makes a huge difference in speed of a run, but you can't get any flavor through. Useful for neutral or fuel but thats about it.
Yes, one limit with a pot still is nothing gets returned to the boiler.  As you run this still more and more energy gets used to boil the water.  Water has a 3 times higher latent heat of vaporization which is why a pot still slows down over s run as the easier etoh gets boiled off.I find it difficult to believe that commercial continuous wiskey stillers would put all the crap flavours back into a complete neutral. Why would Jack Daniels deliberately flavour their product with heads and tails?
I still need to figure out why a batch reflux column behaves different from a continuous column or even a pot still in terms of %abv returned to the boiler. Why does the physics of distillation changes between a batch reflux and a continuous still?
But I am back to Odin's and googe's numbers and accept that a %abv do return to the boiler.
Edit. Okay on the difference between continuous  and batch, I do get that on batch you need to move the ethanol-water water out of the boiler where on continuous you inject the ethanol-water at flash point. My question is; is there a point where the same conditions exist in a batch column as in a continuous column?In the interest of trying to help learning I'm going to pick a nit.
The column BELOW where you inject the hot beer is why you can drive the boiler to near zero etoh.
Just like the upper column purifies the stuff to higher azeo, the lower column purifies the stuff to mostly h20.
It does it with plates.  And it takes as many plates to drive the bottom as the top.That is a very good explanation of a continuous still. And maybe the answer to my question.
On a batch column you only have the top section and the boiler acts as the bottom part. So everything that gets rectified by the bottom section on a continuous still needs to return to the boiler on an batch column?

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