My Problem with cuts

fxaddicted

Since i have problem with sinuses it's really hard for me to Spot the differences between heads / hearts etc
So i think a smart and an experience distiller can help people like me . so that's got me to think if anyone can do the following for a specific still type let's say T500 220volt
1- With T500 220volt
2- for a specific sugar base with 10%abv
3- With water outlet temperature between 55C - 65C
4- Collect xx% foreshot/Heads
5- Collect xx% Hearts
6- Turn Off
Why this is not possible ? We even can create an online calculator in case any of the above parameters changes
I know it would be great if i can do the cuts based on sniffing but that not possible at least on my case
What you think about this ?

Stonecutter

Cuts are completely organic and arbitrary. Ask 10 distillers to judge an a early tails jar or late heads jar and you’ll get 10 different answers.
Think Jaegermeister.
I understand that smell and taste are intertwined but are you able to taste with any sizable discernment between your cuts? If so, take a drip and rub it between your index and thumb and then wipe it on your tongue. That’ll be a way to make cuts. Another option would be to bring someone you trust in to learn to make cuts with you. It’s not rocket science. It just takes practice.

And btw if you’re friends aren’t able to give you a small break on your cuts then f*ck em’ anyway. Keep the hooch you blend for yourself.Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
-Thomas Paine

Dougmatt

Agree with stonecutter and it’s more than judgement imo.  Process drives difference too. For example:  Every distiller will have a different fermentation process which will result in different  conversions and components in the wash / mash.
I sympathize with your situation and in addition to Stonecutters recommendation suggest you take a look at the “eye test” for the heads to hearts transition.   viewtopic.php?p=6942933
I do this often myself to confirm my thinking.

Steve-Broady

What yeast are you using?
How much yeast?
What temperature was the wash fermented at?
How long did it sit after fermentation finished?
Was there any contamination or infection?
What was the pH at the start?
What was the pH at the end?
These are just the variables that come to my inexperienced mind right away. I’m sure there are a lot more. I’ve always heard that it’s simply not possible to distill by the numbers. Even the big commercial distilleries where they have much better control over the entire process still have to taste and make adjustments.Steve, you’re way behind time. This is not 38, but it’s old 97. You must put her into Spencer on time.

OtisT

Hi fxaddicted.   
Perhaps try using taste/mouth feel to cut out the heads/tails.   I can and often do make my cuts by taste alone because my nose does not always work well either.
Here is my method, assuming you collect in jars like the beginners guide to cuts process thread:  

First thing to know is that I use this method to identify and remove what offends me.  I am not tasting for a good flavor to keep, I am tasting for what to remove/cut.
The bad tastes in jars are not binary. (binary means that the bad taste is there or it is not.)  Like smell, there is a progression of the bad tastes from jar to jar through a run.  The bad taste of heads or tails should be non existent in the heart of hearts jars, and the bad tastes get progressively worse as you try jars further to the front of back of the run.  
For a drink you intend to drink white, you don’t want to keep many (or any) jars that include the bad tastes.  For a barrel cut, some of the least offensive jars can be tolerated.  I personally tolerate some heads but very little tails in most of my oak aged spirits.  How much bad taste to tolerate can vary by style of spirit, aging method, and personal preference.
To learn what the bad tastes are, you have to sit down and taste your jars from a run.  (Just like kiwi’s guide).  It can take repeated batches to figure out and get comfortable with the results.  You should learn to identify the taste of heads/tails AND how/where it feels in your mouth.
Heads
I can taste/feel heads coming as I work toward the early jars.  I feel it on the front of my tongue, and it stings.  The closer to the first jar I get, the stronger the taste/feel of heads.  My cut point is where after a sample swoosh and spit, I can taste/feel the burn and that burn lingers longer than a few seconds.  You need to taste from good jars through to some harsh jars to get to know how the taste/feel progresses, and take notes.    Spit out as you taste, and keep water handy to rinse after each taste.  Walk away for a bit if it gets to be too much and you can’t tell one jar from another.  I do that a lot.
Tails
Same process moving towards tails, but the taste of tails is not a burn.  It is a bitter taste/dry pucker feel in the middle/back of my tongue.  The oils cause this bad taste to coat and stick to your mouth.  My tails cut is when the bitterness of tails coats my tongue and that coating/taste does not dissipate after about three seconds.   This usually comes a jar or two before any cloudy jars from the run.  
I hope this helps.
OtisOtis’ Pot and Thumper, Dimroth Condenser:  Pot-n-Thumper/Dimroth
Learning to Toast:  Toasting Wood
Polishing Spirits with Fruitwood:  Fruitwood
Badmotivator’s Barrels:  Badmo Barrels

Stonecutter

I’d like to edit my above post by saying that I’ve only ever tried my hand at brown spirits and a couple sugar shines. Cutting a neutral spirit run may be completely different.Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
-Thomas Paine

still_stirrin

Here’s what you CAN do:
1) volume of the mash x %ABV (potential) = theoretical volume of 100% alcohol
for example, 10 gallons of mash at 10%ABV = 10 x 10% = 1 gallon of (pure) alcohol
2) figure estimated low wines volume @ 30%ABV: volume (100%) / low wines purity (30%)
in the example, 1 gallon / 30% = 3.33 gallons at 30%ABV
3) estimate the number of collection jars, assume 375ml per jar
example, 3.33 gallons x 3785 ml/gal = 12,604ml, divide by 375, 12,604 / 375 = 33.6 jars
4) keep the middle 1/3 of the collection (12 jars) and give the first 11 jars and the last 11 jars to a fellow distiller WHO CAN SMELL.
How’s that for a “formula” for someone who doesn’t know what or how to make cuts?
ssAttention new distillers: Cranky's spoon feed info
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still:  stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K

fxaddicted

Thanks to all but Very special thanks to you for this great answer . i will take this path because my taste still good and i know what you talking about especially regarding the Tails
Thanks again mate

jonnys_spirit

One thing i’ll do once I have my 20-25 fractions collected from the spirit run is to make up a glass or three from middle and towards the ends where i suspect I may want to make the cut. Drink a few different blends over a few nights. Not enough to get really drunk but enough to expect to feel something next morning. If you have a splitting headache or otherwise hung over then you probably went too far into heads/tails.
Save your feints too because there’s a number of ways to use em.
After a few runs you’ll get a better handle on it and learn what your do or don’t like and it’s not necessarily ruined either if you cut it too wide.
Cheers!
-j————
i make stuff i break stuff
water into whiskey into water
just getting started in home distilling - been drinking for decades
16g copper pot still, 10l alembic, and a column or two
————

fxaddicted

Here’s what you CAN do:
1) volume of the mash x %ABV (potential) = theoretical volume of 100% alcohol
for example, 10 gallons of mash at 10%ABV = 10 x 10% = 1 gallon of (pure) alcohol
2) figure estimated low wines volume @ 30%ABV: volume (100%) / low wines purity (30%)
in the example, 1 gallon / 30% = 3.33 gallons at 30%ABV
3) estimate the number of collection jars, assume 375ml per jar
example, 3.33 gallons x 3785 ml/gal = 12,604ml, divide by 375, 12,604 / 375 = 33.6 jars
4) keep the middle 1/3 of the collection (12 jars) and give the first 11 jars and the last 11 jars to a fellow distiller WHO CAN SMELL.
How’s that for a “formula” for someone who doesn’t know what or how to make cuts?
ssGreat idea to do the taste myself also . i will try this thanks