AG squeezing how much will it settle

dunluce

Afternoon all,
I have just finished squeezing out the last bit of the AG wash, and while I am going to let it settle, it seems there are many different small particles in there. How well will this settle out? Will it actually settle enough to be clear, or are the last bits of the wash always going to be somewhat cloudy?
Thanks.

Dancing4dan

That may depend on your grain bill but if you can get it chilled for a few days (AKA cold crash) it should settle out."What harms us is to persist in self deceit and ignorance"
Marcus Aurelius
Yellow Label... I put that sh#t on everything!

dunluce

85% barley, 15% oats.

Demy

On a ferment of cereal , you don't need to be overly worried. Instead in a sugar wash it is better to let it clear.

dunluce

Thanks Demy, I was more worried about scorching than flavour.

Deplorable

I humbly disagree. On a cereal mash after squeezing you should let the yeast and trub settle out.
I find I get a cleaner flavor and better finished product.
Off a 25 gallon mash I rack off two 5 gallon buckets of clear wash. And three buckets of milky wash. I let them all sit for one to two weeks and settle.  The 3rd bucket usually ends up with an inch or two of custard,  the last two get 3 to 5 inches of custard in the bottom and I rack off the clear and strip it setting aside a gallon for the spirit run.
I combine all the custard into one bucket and let that rest another week or two and salvage another 1 to 2 quarts of clear for the spirit run.Use all your senses, and its not that hard. You just have to pay attention.
Procrastinate, you'll make better whiskey.

greggn

Expect to give it a week or more ... and expect to lose a lot of volume to trub.________________
I drank fifty pounds of feed-store corn
'till my clothes were ratty and torn

shadylane

I'm assuming the barley wasn't malted since you had to squeeze the AG mash.
Be patient and watch, it's going to take awhile.  

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dunluce

I'm assuming the barley wasn't malted since you had to squeeze the AG mash.
Be patient and watch, it's going to take awhile.  

It was, actually, but the oats seems to help retain a lot of the fluid in the grains. Brewing facebook group does a malt buy a few times a year....slip an order in an excel spreadsheet, send an emt, and pick up in the city where I work when it comes in.
Seems to be settling okay, so I will give it some time.  I have 30g of rum to run, and 30g of cornflake whiskey that should be finishing soon.
(I've been coming coming dangerously close to emptying my wares, and need to build stock for ageing).

shadylane

Since the grain bill is 85% barley malt.
Have you thought about using a mash tun, so you can ferment off the grain?
I think it makes a better whiskey than fermenting on the grain and squeezing.

dunluce

I have a Brewzilla for brewing, but I thought I read that most who have tried fermenting on the grain find a better flavour comes over?

dunluce

Took a pic, it's already starting to settle.

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Demy

For me it's already okay ...

dunluce

Lol. That's the second of two, first one is much darker.

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Deplorable

It will darken some as it oxidizes during settling. I think if you racked off the trub now, even with in internal element you'd be fine. I like to give mine a couple weeks when I can.Use all your senses, and its not that hard. You just have to pay attention.
Procrastinate, you'll make better whiskey.

dunluce

Ok, sounds good everyone.  I have 30g of rum that is being stripped today, so no rush to finish up with the AG whiskey yet.
Thanks for all the advice, hope it and the pics helps someone in the future.  

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ddizzle22

I used to not really care and have ran some real cloudy wash through my still. Now I am patient and just let the whole mess settle for at least week but longer is better and even the most cloudy stuff really clears just takes time.

still_stirrin

thh01r3bsci.jpeg

Settled Mash“Gravity …it’s not just a good idea.  It’s the LAW!”  Settling will happen …with time.  You just need patience.  Rather than getting “all wrapped around the axle”, let it settle until you can see clearly what you’ll be racking into your boiler.  In the long run, you’ll be ahead.
I know corn is rough to settle, especially “fermented on the grain”.  But it will settle.  And it’ll run cleaner when it is time.
Patience, son.  Patience.
ss
p.s. -  3 weeks, FYI.Attention new distillers: Cranky's spoon feed info
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squigglefunk

the best way to clear a mash IMO is to strip it lol - it should be crystal clear after that ...

Twisted-Brick

I guess you missed the complaints of objectionable yeast flavors becoming apparent after a year's rest on oak.
FWIW, a mash stops being a mash once it is converted whereupon it becomes a wash.  Same with calling a ferment (finished or not) a mash, glossary distinctions rookies miss and all too common these days.
If yeast notes aren't detectable on your palette just ignore me and strip on!“Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore, always carry a small snake.”
- W.C. Fields
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squigglefunk

gotcha thanks

squigglefunk

clearing WASH is pretty much a homedistiller's practice, much more likely due to internal heat elements creating off tastes than anything yeast or any other particles are doing on their own.

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It probably tastes better because these stills apparently do not make good tasting booze without it being cleared, not because cloudy wash or something distilled on the grain tastes bad.

Deplorable

We got a hater of internal elements here...
I've run both and scrubbed more shit of the bottom of my still running propane than I ever have with an internal element. I can say with confidence that my final product tastes better if I let it clear than when I don't, regardless of the heat source.
If you can't taste the difference, then don't clear your wash, but don't yuck on someone else's yum.  
The OP wasn't a question of what's the best way to clear a wash, it was "How much will it settle?"Use all your senses, and its not that hard. You just have to pay attention.
Procrastinate, you'll make better whiskey.

squigglefunk

sorry being a dingle,,,,, happy thanksgiving
I like my washes dirty and my guitars even dirtier  

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Stonecutter

George Thorogood “Gear Jammer” dirty or Stevie Ray Vaughan “Dirty Pool” dirty?
Happy Thanksgiving y’allFreedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
-Thomas Paine

Twisted-Brick

.
Dunluce,
You may not have as much of a challenge with crushed barley malt and oats, but different grain types and degree of milling will impact how long it takes for particles to fall out of suspension.  My mill makes consistent meal granules, but like most mills/grinders, there's no escaping the finest 'dust' particles. The carboy on the left is the 'clear' collected from a 13gal bourbon ferment, which shows how much yeast/trub was in suspension. The carboy on the right is the mostly clear fermented wash remaining from the fermenter.  Both have seen 7-10 days rest.
Before I started clearing, I would run the entire opaque ferment uncleared which turned up 'chalky/yeasty' notes in the final spirit.
The bottom vase holds the last bit of 'pure' custard collected from the bottom of the conical, which takes even longer to drop out in the fridge, but gets saved to add to low wines in a spirit run.  Theoretically, after clearing completely, it's the heaviest wash from the ferment.Attachments

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“Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore, always carry a small snake.”
- W.C. Fields
My EZ Solder Shotgun
My Steam Rig and Manometer

StillerBoy

Totally in agreement with your statement on clearing, as I've been clearing for yyyyears..  the extra time is well worth it in the finished product, no matter what is fermented..
After all.. is it not why we are in the hobby ? ?  and there are some trick's to assist in clearing, and I'm not referring to cold crashing either which works but are easier ways..
One of the best clearing tip is racking and degassing..  at veriest stages of the fermenting process like just as soon as the ferment SG hits 1.000 and allowing to finished (usually a 2 days then racking it off its lee)..  racking removes the active yeast from the ferment, and degassing remove the CO2..  done a couple of times, the wash/mash will become clear or see through..
Mars" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "
– Albert Einstein

Twisted-Brick

Totally in agreement with your statement on clearing, as I've been clearing for yyyyears..  the extra time is well worth it in the finished product, no matter what is fermented..
After all.. is it not why we are in the hobby ? ?  and there are some trick's to assist in clearing, and I'm not referring to cold crashing either which works but are easier ways..
One of the best clearing tip is racking and degassing..  at veriest stages of the fermenting process like just as soon as the ferment SG hits 1.000 and allowing to finished (usually a 2 days then racking it off its lee)..  racking removes the active yeast from the ferment, and degassing remove the CO2..  done a couple of times, the wash/mash will become clear or see through..
MarsMars, if you've been clearing your ferments for years, then I think I have a good idea of what your spirits may taste like.... damn good!  Yes, probably like you, the reason I'm into this hobby is to cram as much knowledge and experience into each successive batch I make in the name of continuous improvement, and ultimately to make a unique, hand-crafted artisanal product.  
Maybe it's because its much warmer where I live, but I have to wait 7-10 days for my bourbon squeezin's to clear, and that's after a week of allowing my finished ferment to clear and let the yeasties clean up after themselves. Unlike you, it usually takes me 3 weeks from finished ferment to boiler.“Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore, always carry a small snake.”
- W.C. Fields
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My Steam Rig and Manometer

Stonecutter

Looks like we’re on the same boat Twisted. The pursuit of a fine drop continues.
Dunluce, I do run an electric element and I have had some scorchers which have spurred me to let all of my ferments clear. I like the cold crashing method because you can get a clearer beer or wash quickly without having to add anything to the brew. Mars makes a great point as well. Racking and degassing will produce a nice clear ferment. I highly suggest letting your ferment clear before running it.
My limited distilling experience has shown me that, in my shed, taking a low and slow approach to the whole Distilling process has produced better results. YIMMV
Give it time and you’ll be rewardedFreedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
-Thomas PaineTB..  if you're up to it, on your next batch, follow this process and see if it produces a different in clearing time..
Once the fermentation has reached an SG of 1.000 or better yet once the grain cap has almost all fallen down, give the ferment a good degassing, stirring cross wise in the fermenter for about 1 min, and give it 2 days..  check SG and it should read well about the 1.000..  at the stage racked cleared half or more into another fermenter, and squeeze the rest, and filter the squeezed part (with a geotex fabric) before adding to the clear half, and once that's done, another good degassing and give it 5 - 7 days and see how it's come along, if need to, another racking and degassing and should be clear..
I don't view the warmer temp being all that of an issue as my ambient temp in the summer is between 75 - 80*F..  C02 is the main issue..  I've learn this process from wine making..  I make premium wine kit with skins, and I can clear the wine within 6 week to the point that six months of bulk aging, there is hardly any sediment in the wine and I bottle it at that point without having to filter it..  and once it's bottle I age another 2 - 5 yrs and there's no sediment in my bottled wines..  
Mars" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "
– Albert Einstein

Twisted-Brick

Will do, Mars.  I can see the purpose of degassing to speed flocculation along. As always, thanks for the wisdom.“Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore, always carry a small snake.”
- W.C. Fields
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