Self-Contained Systems: Real Work Savers

Clint-Yeastwood

I just joined the forum after about 16 years away from brewing, so I have a lot of dumb questions.
When I quit brewing, people were pretty excited about brew sculptures made from angle iron. Now I see the world is full of self-contained Buck Rogers contraptions that sit on a countertop. I am curious about them.
I used to brew with a 10-gallon pot on a turkey burner, a stand-up beverage cooler for sparging, and buckets for fermentation. I cooled my beer by throwing the buckets in the pool; my tap water temperature was very high, so using the copper-tubing chiller I made didn't pay off all that well. The pool got the job done.
I still have the pot and cooler. A lot of other things were disposed of.
The process was not terribly hard, but anything that would make it easier and use less junk is worth looking into.
I see a company called Speidel makes fancy machines, and it appears it's not too hard to buy them used. Maybe they work so well, guys start getting ultimatums from their doctors.
Do these things really save substantial work, or should I just get me a new cooler and false bottom and go back to what I know? I would like to make 20L batches. I like ales, but I also make a lager I am crazy about.
Info that could be helpful:
Location: FL, so brewing outdoors not a problem.
Plenty of space on porch and in laundry room.
Lots of 220 outlets in shop, plus dryer outlet in house.
Handy utility sink for cleanup.

redrocker652002

I too have looked into them. I especially like the Anvil system, but this being a hobby I don't want to part with 600 bucks right now. I figure that it is better to get the process and work out the kinks using a boil pot, BIAB setup and a bucket fermenter. At some point, if I ever get good enough and set up a nice room for a brew space, then maybe. My ultimate goal is t get a used fridge and set it up with about 4 or 5 taps and have multiple styles on hand for friends and family when they come over. But I am light years from that right now. I will be watching this as I am thinking much the same as you.

DBhomebrew

Buy a wilserbag. $35, you're ready to brew.
The all in ones seem really great. I might go down that road one day. But they seem like they might trade a some brewing labor for a lot of cleaning labor. Maybe I'm wrong on that.

Clint-Yeastwood

I see a lot of people who have products other than the Braumeister, complaining about things falling apart and not working.

NSMikeD

BIAB really simplified brewing and it opened the door to brew at all levels. Not only could a new brewer make very good beer with less equipment and simpler steps, the advanced brewer could endlessly tweak and refine the process to make great beer.
The advance to eBIAB just make it easier and more control. The thermostat/controller makes it easier to dial in and hold temperatures making brew data more enjoyable plus for the geeks it looks cooler
It’s all about how you want to spend your money. For me, the ability to control mask temps for 2.5 gallons and the ease do resisting the basket to drain using the Anvil 6.4 was worth the $375 (less cause I got it on sale )
But the pot on the stove with the mesh bag did the job before that.

Clint-Yeastwood

This is like Idiocracy, except everyone else is smarter than me. I disappeared for a few years, and now I have to catch up on everything. I guess I quit before BIAB became widespread. Now I'm reading up on it.
My first thought was that efficiency would drop off. I guess you can fix that by increasing the size of the batch, though. Anyway, thanks for the help.

DBhomebrew

Many consider a full-volume mash to be the default standard for BIAB. Probably is. Hence its reputation for dropped efficiency.
I use a single room temp dunk (batch) sparge. For a typical 1.044 bitter, I'm looking at 92% mash efficiency. Next week's barleywine is estimated at 75%.
I don't squeeze, I merely let the bag free hang for 20-25min per lauter. My grain absorption ratio is about .08 gal/lb. The often stated default absorption ratio for a traditional lauter is .12 gal/lb. That difference is the lauter efficiency advantage a single sparge BIAB has over a single sparge traditionally lautered batch.

Martys1

I was building a 15 gal keggle on a propane stand but before I finished I was searching Craigslist and found an anvil 10 and a anvil 6.5.wanted the bigger one but couldn’t get a hold of the seller so I ended up with a6.5 with a pump, glad I did.also came with a mill, 5 pound Co2 w regulator, 2 1.75 gal kegs,2 3 gal carboy 3 1 gal glass bottles,a heat blanket all for a song,
I was going to start doing smaller batches,decided to go big, I can usually get between 5.5-6.25 in the fermenter,I’m pretty content with it,
I’ve done about 30 batches since I bought it.

Sammy86

Cleaning is easier not harder...drain finished wort, put everything back in, fill with water and cleaning products, heat and recirculate done.

Bobby_M

This system is le tits.

dmbrew48

Wow - Bobby - really nice work on that setup!

NSMikeD

BIABers are reporting very high efficiency. IMO, consistency is far more important that efficiency in home brewing (efficiency = paying the rent in commercial brewing) and have done the math. Any difference is pennies in malt. With today's software it's easy to track and dial in your method and thus be able to predict your grain bills.
While I have nothing against traditional forms of brewing, over the years the BIAB world has put to rest any of the naysayers who suggest that it is an inferior form of brewing. In the end it's simply another variation in brewing methodology that offers a bit of simplicity and convenience while not sacrificing quality.
+1 on the ease of cleaning the all in ones. And no matter how careful I was with the traditional stove top pot, I don't miss having to scrub baked on malt nor washing the mesh bag (a stainless steel malt pipe rinses off in the sink clean and quickly).

Geezer-Glide

I started brewing years ago like everybody else with an extract kit. Because my hobbies have a way of taking over my life it wasn't long before I had a three tier system and was culturing my own yeast. When I moved back to Ohio from Seattle (in 2005) I didn't have room for my old system and went to BIAB and was pleasantly surprised. When we downsized 10 years ago I lost my brewing garage. Went to eBIAB so I could brew in the basement. It is the easiest method I have used to date and you can make a very drinkable beer. I bought a "Brewer's Best Mash and Boil". They are not terribly expensive. There are a lot better systems on the market at different price points. For now, BBM&B serves me well. Clean-up is easy and the footprint is much smaller than my old 3-tier system. A bonus is that I can brew all winter in Ohio without bringing propane in my house. Disadvantages? Yup. Small batch size among them. I can brew batches big enough to fill a corny keg. That's enough for me. YMMV

Clint-Yeastwood

It's hard for me to appreciate Bobby's system because I keep staring at the amazing welds.

Ballaratguy

I’ve got a SVB and love it. I figured that once you built up a 3V system the SVB was cheaper and also has a very small footprint. So if space is a concern then…..

Bobby_M

Of all the arguments waged against BIAB, the lower efficiency is really the only one that I'll concede. My mash efficiency is typically 72% and brewhouse is 60-65% depending on how hop-heavy the batch is. I intentionally leave quite a bit of crud in the kettle due to using a non-conical fermenter.
This really is a wash in so many ways though, because even the most sophisticated eBIAB system is going to be less then $2K while the technology-equivalent 3-vessel is nearly 3x the price. It would take 1000 batches of increased grain cost to get to the same out of pocket. Then there's the hour or two saved on each brew day, which depending on your value on time, could be significant.

DosGatosBrewing

I've been brewing a long while, but low-tech. No BIAB, just a big-A kettle for boiling, a cooler for mashing, and a smaller kettle for hot liquor. I built a rig out of 2x4's and some flooring that I picked out of my neighbors construction debris.
The basics are still the same, and I do 10-12 gallon batches including cleanup in about 4 1/2 or 5 hours, outdoors, rain or shine.
My basic rule is: if it's complicated or expensive, I don't want to do it.
Cheers, and welcome back!

k-daddy

I built one based on Bobby’s design. Having had a 2 vessel system, this was the most significant change and overall improvement to my home brewing process. Same end result (albeit less BH efficiency), a real space saver and much easier cleanup. I recently fashioned a Pex recirculation tube with drilled holes that will extend down into the mash to see if it might help the recirculation efficiency/evenness of penetration… we’ll see. When you look past all the eye catching bells & whistles of the various all in ones offered today, I really think Bobby has the best system. Good luck.

Bobby_M

Looks like you have a lot of pluses already for brewing so I'd go simple then work your way up to a dream system. I see folks with fancy brew sculptures, automated brew systems but do they brew stellar beers, or does the buckets work fine? I think whatever you brew with and make beers you like should be the system you use.
I started out with buckets and now after 30+ years I use an insulated cooler as mash tun, an electric water heater as my HLT, various hoses/pumps/fittings and a fabricated brew pot using natural gas for heating. Just a few years I splurged on a Spike CF10 fermenter and last year a plate chiller. I could have gotten by without those two. I brew in the basement in a dedicated spot. Good exhaust system, fire extinguisher and CO sensors - safety first.
Living in Florida with what you have already I'd go with an electric system you can use indoor and out. Bobby's electric setup looks sweet, but you might be able to find a used system for less cash out then upgrade as you need it. Building a cart can be some 2x4's, metal strut or a utility table on wheels. Seek out some beer drinking friends that can help you build a system. Finding someone who welds stainless is a bonus but weldless fittings work fine.
Keep reading and looking at other folks systems for ideas to build yours.
Welcome back to brewing!

Clint-Yeastwood

I'm a terrible salesman but one bit of advice I feel completely comfortable giving is that the more complete and hands off a system you can afford, the better. I find myself brewing so much more regularly now that I have this system that sits where it brews, no "setup" other than filling with water the night before. No weather concerns at all. I can just focus on experimentation and perfecting recipes.
I paid my dues for years with systems that needed to be put away for storage, dragged out to the driveway (IF THE WEATHER ABIDED), make sure I had my backup propane tank, and all that. Never again.

Komodo

I am not sure a self-contained system is worth it now that I have become aware of BIAB. Seems like washing a bag and a pot can't be any harder than taking an electric system apart and washing the parts.
Looks like I could start tomorrow if I had a bag, a fermenting bucket, a keg, and some measuring stuff. If I got a self-contained system, I would still have to get everything but the bag. I guess, then, the difference in cost would be the price of the system minus about thirty bucks.
It would be really cool, though, pushing a button and walking away. Is that where the big benefit is? Not having to sit and monitor the temperature and so on?
I used to heat my mash on an electric stove. Then I moved the kettle to the counter, where I covered it with towels to keep the heat in. After that, everything went to a big Igloo cooler with a false bottom, and then I boiled in the kettle. I would fill the fermenters and throw them in the pool to cool down. This is what I remember. I may be missing details. Everything worked fine, but toward the end of my brewing career, I started having infections I could not trace. Then I got distracted and quit.
I still have CO2 and beer gas tanks and one regulator. My other regulator drowned in an accident. I had converted a chest freezer into a beer fridge with two towers on top. Something blew out, and several gallons of beer went into the bottom of the fridge, where the regulator was sitting. I'm pretty sure all my measuring stuff is gone along with the portable system for dispensing beer from plastic jugs. And I gave my only growler to Goodwill.
I think the days of having six different beers on hand, fermenting or kegged, are over for me. But having a couple of kegs would be nice.

redrocker652002

This is of course false. There are two types of sales people, one who tries to make a sale, and one who genuinely is invested in your goals and works to get you what you need (even if you don’t know what that is exactly). My wife sold Cadillacs to the older set around here for 17 years and they freaking loved her because she’s so genuine, friendly and helpful.
Cheers to @Bobby_M!

NSMikeD

I think we all have had some catastrophic events that we question if we should move on. I built a kegerator; purchased a new chest freezer and built it up for six corny kegs. After a couple years that thing died and couldn't be fixed. So much for buying a new chest freezer. I took the dead unit, drilled two four inch holes in the side and strapped an upright freezer to it. That worked like a charm, looked like hell, but I had cold beer on tap again. I moved on.
So, try not to be discouraged by life's curve balls. I figure I learn from every little thing and try to do better next time. Having two different beers on tap that you brewed is better than a lot of folks have!