Enzymes in a UJSM style wash

FullySilenced

If you use enzymes in a wash and the wash is restarted.... are there still any enzymes in with the yeast bed or are all the enzymes expended and used up... I have never heard or read this question discussed in a previous post....
Would be interesting to hear what others thoughts are on this? I am thinking the enzymes are used up...but am not sure
FSDo it Safely read The safety section:  http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=33
New Distillers Reading: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=46
Hookline's Basic Still Designs: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =1&t=18873

midwest-shinner

I think that would probably depend on the amount of enzymes used in the first place. But are we talking nutrients for the yeast or are we talking about enzymes? Like amylase or something? Either way i believe that there would be like a threshold amount that would get used up in 1 round and any amount above that would be leftover, meaning it would still be in the bed for the next gen. But this is simply an educated guess, I could be wrong. What are your thoughts FS?There's whisky in the jar

rad14701

UJSSM is not a mash, it is a sugarhead, so no real conversion takes place - or very little at best... The cracked corn is for flavor and nutrient values only... The enzymes in the cracked corn will only marginally kick in, if at all, and the very minute amounts of enzymes the yeast also produces during the fermentation process is inconsequential as well...Small Scale 1.25" Two Reducer LM Head For Stripping Plus Reflux Column Extension. (Apartment Still)
Concentric Pot/Reflux Still (Experimental)
Refined the Gerber and All Bran recipes.
A little spoon feeding for New & Novice Distillers

midwest-shinner

Very true Rad, that's also why i asked if FS meant to say enzymes or if he meant nutrients. I've seen others mix those terms up numerous times...There's whisky in the jar

FullySilenced

Enzymes are not nutrients to the best of my knowledge...
quote="FullySilenced"]If you use enzymes in a wash
FS[/quote]
I am not talking natural enzymes like from barley...
What if they are added...  do they stay in the grain bed and remain active or do they deplete...    say i have a 10 gallon grain bed... is there still enough active for the next ferment or do i have to add addition enzymes based on grain weight...
Do enzymes propagate in any fashion or are they just reactive?Do it Safely read The safety section:  http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=33
New Distillers Reading: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=46
Hookline's Basic Still Designs: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =1&t=18873

midwest-shinner

Ok so you are talking enzymes and not nutrients. Enzymes i believe are just reactive, they don't propagate like yeast does. But like Rad said enzymes really aren't necessary in a sugarhead. I mean i guess they may pull a bit more sugar out of the grain and hence a bit more abv%, but i would likely just add more sugar if i wanted higher abv from my sugarhead wash and save the enzymes for the AG mashesThere's whisky in the jar

rtalbigr

Enzymes don't get used up. Enzymes are catalytic proteins that enhance or speed up chemical actions. Technically, under proper conditions, a single enzyme molecule will continue to function ad infinitum, since it is not a living being, it is simply a molecule. Enzymes, as related to mashing, work under specific temperature restrictions. While they will work to a very limited degree when the temperature is below their ideal range, they do have a temperature range that is ideal, i.e. beta amylase works most efficiently at 145-148F but has a working range of 131-152F. When the temperature exceeds a certain point (152F for beta amylase) the enzymes denature. The excessive heat breaks the bonds within the protein and the enzyme no longer exists.
Big R"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt

midwest-shinner

Damn thanks for the correction Bigr. Shoulda left my uneducated guesses out of it i suppose

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There's whisky in the jar

FullySilenced

I thought this was one of the best answers posted so i decided to share it and see how it fits in your thoughts....
Quoting  punkin
September 11
FS
I know you haven't got a proper answer to your question here or on some of the other boards, let me take an uninformed (the reason i haven't weighed in yet) stab.
As mentioned earlier, enzymes are not a living thing like yeast, so will not reproduce. They are a chemical that's made as a byproduct of reactions either micro-biologically or synthetically.
As far as i see it those chemicals do all the things that have been explained in this thread, acting like chainsaws to chop the long chain sugars up etc, but they spend themselves in doing so. Just like the difference tween using baking soda to raise flour or yeast.
1 tsp of Yeast will raise an indefinate amount of flour, so long as conditions are right because it will continue to grow. It'll raise a mountain if you keep feeding it.
1 tsp of baking soda however will raise about 100 gm of flour as it uses a different method. The more flour you add the less the reaction is visible (although it still raises the same amount).
I think of enzymes the same way, if you need 1ml per kilo to convert, then that 1ml will be used up doing that conversion and if you add another kilo there will be little conversion. So in your UJSM situation using yeast with a/g you'd have to keep adding it each time, not for the yeast, but for the a/g.Do it Safely read The safety section:  http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=33
New Distillers Reading: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=46
Hookline's Basic Still Designs: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =1&t=18873