Weldless vs Welded/Soldered Keggle AliExpress Cast Iron Flange

stealth

As I understand it, there are mainly two designs of keggle commonly used on this forum: one with a soldered or welded on female threaded fitting (1" inner dia., threaded inside to take a water heater element), or a weldless flange attached by bolts and with a gasket usually made of cork. I intend to keep the top of my keg intact to save cost and rely on chemical cleaning rather than mechanical cleaning (white vinegar or similar, run sugar washes) for now. What are the disadvantages/benefits associated with each design, both achieving the same goal? If weldless is cheaper than I see no reason to use a welded design, and vice-versa.
Also, thoughts on these flanges I found on AliExpress? Not sure what the technical name for them is. They are made of cast iron, so they're very hard and can rust. Is the hardness/shatterability bad for bolting it down tight or having it bend to the curvature of the keg compared to other weldless flanges seen on this forum? I plan to use one of these with some cork while following
eternalfrost's guide

acfixer69

Cast iron is not acceptable gasket is always the problem with weldless fittings.

bcook608

You don't want to use cast iron. Strictly stainless or copper.
You can use solder for parts that won't be under a lot of mechanical strain.

You can also use silver brazing rod like this:

It will hold up to large mechanical strain. I used this to braze a ferrule to my stainless boiler and it easily supports the weight of my pot head and full 24" shotgun condenser with no signs of weak points. And a little bit of the rod goes a LONG way. The 2 rods in the listing will cover a LOT of seam. Approximately 25 inches of flow per inch of rod if the joints are nice and tight.- New users start here
- A message to new users
- Planning your first run
- Novice Guide for Cuts (Pot Still)
- My Rigs

bcook608

I would also recommend a 2 inch tri clamp ferrule for the element. It makes removing or replacing the element much easier and faster.- New users start here
- A message to new users
- Planning your first run
- Novice Guide for Cuts (Pot Still)
- My Rigs

acfixer69

You don't want to use cast iron. Strictly stainless or copper.
You can use solder for parts that won't be under a lot of mechanical strain.

You can also use silver brazing rod like this:

It will hold up to large mechanical strain. I used this to braze a ferrule to my stainless boiler and it easily supports the weight of my pot head and full 24" shotgun condenser with no signs of weak points. And a little bit of the rod goes a LONG way. The 2 rods in the listing will cover a LOT of seam. Approximately 25 inches of flow per inch of rod if the joints are nice and tight.Why would you want  to use that rod if cast is a no go.

bcook608

You don't want to use cast iron. Strictly stainless or copper.
You can use solder for parts that won't be under a lot of mechanical strain.

You can also use silver brazing rod like this:

It will hold up to large mechanical strain. I used this to braze a ferrule to my stainless boiler and it easily supports the weight of my pot head and full 24" shotgun condenser with no signs of weak points. And a little bit of the rod goes a LONG way. The 2 rods in the listing will cover a LOT of seam. Approximately 25 inches of flow per inch of rod if the joints are nice and tight.Why would you want  to use that rod if cast is a no go.Because it's cadmium free, high silver content, can withstand high pressure (mechanical strength), finishes to a damn near mirror finish once cooled, self fluxed, and flows forever with minimal clean up needed.- New users start here
- A message to new users
- Planning your first run
- Novice Guide for Cuts (Pot Still)
- My Rigs

acfixer69

95/5 and sta brite  are cad free and half the cost and under 600F melting point.

Salt-Must-Flow

Tri-Clamp ferrules are cheap. The cost to have them TIG welded is even cheaper. Cut the holes yourself, you can have the parts welded and do all of the finish grinding yourself and overall it's all cheap.

acfixer69

Tig weld is cheap. Not where I live. I tig and no way cheap and no way needed for home distillation.

Yummyrum

Hmmm , I’d argue that .
A 2” ferrule is about $5 . No way in hell that a welder would agree to accept a job to TIG it on for less than $5 .
$50 minimum charge at least for a welding shop around here.
I would however agree with ACfixer that you could soft solder it on much cheaper and easily at a DIY level and it will have all the strength required for the job .My recommended goto .
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ion_Theory

Salt-Must-Flow

Tig weld is cheap. Not where I live. I tig and no way cheap and no way needed for home distillation.Yes it is cheap. Find a local guy who TIG welds on the side. It's not that hard. Go to a local welding supply shop and ask for a good guy. That's what I did and he's not expensive. Go to a local fabrication shop and THAT is expensive.

Salt-Must-Flow

Hmmm , I’d argue that .
A 2” ferrule is about $5 . No way in hell that a welder would agree to accept a job to TIG it on for less than $5 .
$50 minimum charge at least for a welding shop around here.
I would however agree with ACfixer that you could soft solder it on much cheaper and easily at a DIY level and it will have all the strength required for the job .That's because you're going to a fabrication shop. Find a guy who TIG welds on the side otherwise you'll get raped if you let them.
Sure, soft solder all you want. I'll never rely on solder for any of my parts that support a tall column. It would cost more for an accident than it would to do it well once and done forever.

Demy

It was not mentioned if the OP has the necessary equipment to be able to weld,  .... also if you don't want to drill the stem, keep the original ferrule and attach the column on that.

shadylane

Stainless steel flange and self-taping screws.
The flange only has 4 screw holes so 4 more will need to be drilled.

Boozewaves

keeping the top of the keg as it is should be fine . I thought I would need to clean inside my keg a lot so I fitted a pre made flange that I bought . it looks similar to this one

zk2ijpczijc.PNG

but the one I ordered has a 2 inch ferrule instead of the 4 inch in this picture with more metal on each side . The hole to fit it is big enough for me to fit my whole arm in . I re-made the gasket from a 3 mm PTFE sheet and it works great .
but after a good rinse with a hose , vinegar run and sac run a keg will be pretty clean inside and just rinsing in between runs it stays clean enough without much effort so I did not really need to bother doing a flange
however being able to get my arm inside was useful for when I fitted my drain and fill port though as I used bulkhead triclamp fittings  .
although I have learned how to do silver brazing this year and that would have worked too without needing to get my arm inside . its not as strong as tig weld but its still really strong . the advantage is that a suitable torch and right kind of rods cost ten times less than a good tig welder macine and its a lot easier than welding in my experience so i'm +1 on silver soldering being very useful if you need itBecome a distiller : start here viewtopic.php?t=52975

shadylane

Nice flange.
Have you got a link to where folks can get one.

Chauncey

Those cast iron flanges are not what you want. Get a stainless bulkhead
When people tell me I'll regret that in the morning,  I sleep till noon.

stealth

why is cast iron bad and why would i weld a 2" ferrule clamp to my keg for a water heater element?

shadylane

Corrosion and it's easier to remove a tri-clamp than it is to unscrew a 1" fitting.

stealth

Corrosion and it's easier to remove a tri-clamp than it is to unscrew a 1" fitting.It won't come in contact with much liquid because of the gasket and I wouldn't need to remove it when I can just unscrew the water element piece.

Steve-Broady

Corrosion..It won't come in contact with much liquid because of the gasket..You would be amazed at how good chemistry is at happening. Especially at higher temperatures. And especially around water, solvents, and electricity. That cast iron flange WILL corrode over time. Some of that will go into your boiler, and possibly affect your spirit. Some will weaken the metal holding the element and making a seal on the threads. It will become a maintenance item in the future.
If you had absolutely no other way of holding an element in place, and you positively HAD to make alcohol (I’m thinking some sort of post-apocalyptic scenario here), then yes, that would work for a while. But you have better options. You can get a stainless flange. You can get a trip-clamp ferrule which can be bolted, soldered, brazed, or welded into place. If you have access to this forum, you have access to on line retailers willing to sell you the parts that you need. If the difference in cost between a cast iron and stainless flange is really and truly going to break you, then you might want to consider saving up a little while longer, or find a hobby where going cheap isn’t likely to poison you. And of you can afford the stainless flange, then stop being a tightwad and buy it.Steve, you’re way behind time. This is not 38, but it’s old 97. You must put her into Spencer on time.

Steve-Broady

Also, a general (and hopefully friendly) word of advice. You come across to me as being a bit entrenched in your plan. Possibly you’ve already built your still, though I hope not. You’ve been given advice that was, in the opinion of the people giving it at least, good and helpful. You may not understand or appreciate that advice, or you may want more information about why, which is totally understandable. However, I will point out that nearly every single piece of advice I have been given here has proved to both accurate and useful, even when I lacked the knowledge to understand that at the time. Thus I would advise you to seriously consider the advice you’d been given, remember that it was given by someone who has probably already tried whatever you’re considering, and probably already failed at.
Treat the people here with respect, and you will get the same in return. Nobody wants to see you fail, or to waste your money. Myself included. If you really don’t understand someone, and a little searching isn’t finding the answer, people will bend over backwards to share their knowledge. But you’ve got to be receptive to that.Steve, you’re way behind time. This is not 38, but it’s old 97. You must put her into Spencer on time.

Johnnywhiskey

+1 on the silver solder.  
Add a stainless tri clamp:
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tc15rsf.htm
and/or buy a stainless 1/2" npt spud and solder it on.  I added one of each on my boiler.  Super strong and only requires a blowtorch, silver solder and a good flux.  
Having cast iron on a boiler would suck, who wants rust in their wash?