Calling Chemists Removing Copper Sulfate

Bee

I noticed I have a pH problem going on and have a couple batches with copper sulfate in them.
Is there a way to precipitate it out and not add any off-flavor?
Would adding sodium hydroxide work? What about calcium hydroxide?


Sorry, I don't remember my reaction equations from HS!

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NZChris

Run it

shadylane

I'd dump it and fix the cause.
Here's a quote from the MSDS about copper sulfate.
7. Handling and Storage
Danger! Toxic & Fatal if swallowed. Do not ingest. Do not breathe dust. Wear suitable protective clothing. In case of insufficient ventilation, wear suitable respiratory equipment.
Avoid contact with skin and eyes. Avoid formation of dust and aerosols. Wash hands thoroughly after handling. Provide appropriate exhaust ventilation at places where dust is formed. If you feel unwell, seek medical attention.
Keep Copper Sulphate in a tightly closed container, stored in a cool, dry, ventilated area. Protect against physical damage.

Salt-Must-Flow

Bee are you saying you had blue product exiting your still?
NZChris, are you positive of what his issue is? You say, "run it", but can you explain why Bee shouldn't be concerned? I'm genuinely curious ... just run it again and it will separate from the copper sulfate? The reason I ask is because, if I'm not mistaken, not all still setups perform ideally, may smear (or whatever proper term should be used) and perhaps carry over something harmful. In this instance is this contamination something that cannot possibly be carried over by distilling again? Does this require only a basic pot still or a reflux column? I'm not trying to be a dick, just asking if you could clarify at least a little bit for safety sake.
shadylane, I get it, but your source appears to be referring specifically to solids/particulates rather than copper sulfate in solution with ethanol. Yeah, don't drink the blue shit.

still_stirrin

Copper sulfate has a very high boiling point:  650*C.  So, it’ll be left in the boiler, and yes it is toxic.  So don’t drink or keep the backset.
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seamusm53

Outside of flooding/burping the column with liquid not vapor, salts of any sort especially a salt as heavy as a copper salt, are just not going to be carried up to pass over into the distillate.  The CuSo4 will remain in solution in the boiler and should be discarded.  When distillate turns blue that is either a reflection of boiling over or copper having been left in a dirty column or coolant path.  Copper is only modestly toxic which is why it is used as a disinfectant in swimming pools to clear algae.  It tastes awful - think sucking on an old copper penny.  But it isn't fearfully dangerous in the amounts we'd see through distillation.  Else we wouldn't be adding metallic copper to our distillation path or using copper as boilers or columns.

Yummyrum

Agree seamusm53
Copper Sulfate has been used for years to treat town drinking water to kill algae.
A little bit won’t hurt you .My recommended goto .
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ion_Theory

Bee

Already ran it 3x. Not gonna run it again.
Obviously, I had pH problems with my wash, but that's another subject.
My municipal water absolutely sucks!!!!!!!!!

StillerBoy

You made reference twice now, that you consider having a Ph issue, but have not indicate what that is..
What made you thing that's a Ph issue..  what made you state that your municipal water sucks..
I've worked fermentation from different municipality, and never had a Ph issue..  Ph issue is a manageable task..
Mars" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "
– Albert Einstein

Bee

Too high of pH (basic). The water has an extreme amount of buffering capacity too. I talked to a water works drone about it and they said they put additives in it to prevent pipe corrosion to the point that lime builds up in the pipes.

StillerBoy

I've ask a few basic question, and you're still going around the subject without answering..
What the hell does "too high of Ph" means ? ?  how are you testing for the Ph issue.. ? ?  what is your fermenting recipe especially the ingredients and amounts used.. ? ?
If the municipal water is drinkable, and no one is dying from drinking it, then it is also able to ferment with..
Mars" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "
– Albert Einstein

contrahead

Copper sulfate is produced by the reaction between copper and sulfuric acid.  If your washes are turning out blue and you are assuming that this tint was caused by copper sulfate then only a couple of plausible explanations come to mind.  Since the presence of sulfur is required to create copper sulfate to begin with; how did it get there?
Either you created the copper sulfate yourself by using sulfuric acid instead of acetic acid (vinegar) when you first cleaned out your still, or your high pH water in the wash is slowly cleaning and releasing this pigment from the inside surfaces of your copper.    Copper corrosion by contact with air is inevitable and unavoidable (gold is about the only metal that does not corrode).   Ever hear of acid rain?  And sulfur dioxide can be carried by dry air.
My suggestion is to forget about it.   The problem should wash away soon.  A tablespoon or two of bicarbonate of soda is useful for removing buildup from the inside of a copper boiler  (but your boiler may not be of copper).  
As “StillerBoy” said: pH is a manageable task.    It should be simple and easy to amend your water by adding either citric, malic, tartaric, tannic, fumaric, lactic, phosphoric or acetic acids.  You should be on top of your pH management game anyway, to achieve proper fermentation with yeast.  Get yourself some pH test strips (if you don't have any) but stay away from cheap electronic pH testers.
Oh; cupric oxide (a source of copper) in trace amounts is usually found in quality multivitamin and eye care tablets.Omnia mea mecum porto

NZChris

Have you triple distilled a wash and the product is blue?

Bee

Yes and yes. It picked it up out of the column. I believe I fixed the issue with the column, but I still don't want to distill the product again. That would be 4x. It's supposed to be whisky, not vodka.
The normal recipe is 2lbs grain/gal of water, 40% tap water, 40% RO water, 20% backset and 8oz of 88% lactic acid to get down to a pH of about 5.
On this batch, I totally forgot about the RO and used all tap.

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Every time I distill with the pH paper not being strongly pink, I end up with blue booger issues and sub-optimal enzyme conversion.
Can I add pickling lime to precipitate the copper out of the product?

shadylane

I don't know, but wouldn't the calcium hydroxide make the shine taste bad?

NZChris

I doubt it. Pickling lime will react with acids and drop them out, but that’s not the problem you have, which is most likely copper oxide.
Is there a chance you are being fooled by the color of the demijohn? I’ve been fooled a couple of times.
In your situation, I would cut it to about 27% ABV with a matching fresh wash and run it in a simple pot still.

Yummyrum

As a lab assistant , we are told to use sodium carbonate to precipitate most metal salts before discarding liquid .
Another method , although I’m not sure how this would work in booze , is to place steel ( not stainless steel) wool in to copper sulfate solution . Within minutes , the steel wool has copper coating and blue colour disappears leaving a clear liquid .
I think its known as displacement reaction .
However, I suspect you willnow have iron sulfate in your booze instead . Not sure what that would meanMy recommended goto .
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ion_Theory

shadylane

I don't know much about chemistry, but I know a little bit about moonshining.
One thing I'd do for sure, is to clean the product condenser really good before I used it again.
The reason redistilling hasn't cleaned up the blue, is because more is being added each time.

stillanoob

And I'd clean and dry it real well after you use it as well. The real issue to solve here is not what to do with the wash but were the copper sulfate is coming from.

shadylane

That's a lot of lactic acid.  

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