Need some troubleshooting help/guidance.

silyrabit

Here is what I’m working with.
Ingredients:
8lbs cracked corn
7lbs sugar
3 gallons bottle of spring water.
2 to 2.5 gallons of backwash.
1 5g Red Star Premier Cuvee Wine Yeast
Amylase Enzyme
Glucoamylase Enzyme
Fermax Yeast Nutrient
Pectic Enzyme
Mash-making steps.
Bring the backwash to a boil.
Lower heat. Add sugar, and stir until dissolved.
Slowly add in corn wile stirring so it will not clump.
Increase heat while stirring until boil.
Kill the heat and stir occasionally.
Check temp.
When the temp drops to about 150- 155, add amylase enzyme.
Stir in amylase good.
Check temp.
When the temp drops to 140 - 145, add Glucoamylase.
Stir in Glucoamylase good.
When the mash is cool and can be handled dump it into 6gl fermentation bucket.
Add one gallon of spring water.
Add Fermax Yeast Nutrient, and Pectic Enzyme. Stir.
Add in the rest of the water.
Check temp.
When the temp gets down to 90 - 100 add the yeast that has been rehydrating in some sugar water.
Stir.
Starting Gravity is usually around 1.058
Let ferment for two weeks.
Final Gravity is usually around 0.990 (7.09% abv)
Filter Liquid off the grain.
Distillation time.
I use a Mile Hi Distilling 8gl with 2 Inch Copper Diameter Dual Purpose Pro. For heat, I use their 110v controller and element. Stuff the 2in colum with a little copper mesh.
Add mash liquid to still.
Add in the 3/4 to a gallon faints from the last run.
Set heat on high. Takes about 35 to 40 min for output.
Reduce heat to 40%.
Output is 6oz every 10 to 12 min.
Gradually increase heat to maintain that 6oz pace.
Distill down utility abv is at about 10%.
Most usually keep the output from 80% to 65%, and put the rest in the faints jar for next time.
Put all the hearts together abv is must usually around 70% Abv.
Proof down to 50% Abv.
Now here is my problem. (Or is it just me?)
There is a slight corn smell. (That’s good!)
On tasting a slight corn taste with a little alcohol burn. (That’s fine!)
Then on the aftertaste, my tongue fills like there are a ton of bees in my mouth stinging the shit out of my tongue. (Not good!)
I drink other alcohols there is no sting. I have tasted other moonshines and there is no sting.
What is the sting?
Is there something I’m doing in the process to cause the sting?
How do I get rid of the sting?
Thanks for any help that anyone can give.

Saltbush-Bill

I'll hazard a guess and say bad cuts......you cant make cuts by ABV......collect in many small jars.......cover with coffee filters and let air a day or two.
Bend a teaspoon to make a tiny "dipper"....add one tea spoon of spirit to a glass then one tea spoon of water......try to have enough glasses so that you have one for each jar......I use shot glasses............Now smell and taste each diluted sample......work from the middle out. what smells and tastes good is good.....the rest belongs in feints.
Again ..ABV has no place in making final cut decisions.
Example below..........I use shot glasses for this.

3vvfoblraqi.jpg

greggn

Nice backyard.________________
I drank fifty pounds of feed-store corn
'till my clothes were ratty and torn

BrewinBrian44

Bill nailed the comments.
You got heads in there. Diluting your samples is a must or you won’t know what you’re tasting.
A diluted sample that is too heavy in heads creates the stinging sensation you describe. For me, heads sting the tip of my tongue and cause a numbing sensation on the lips. Sometimes they’ll actually taste decent, but if you get the stinging burn, leave it out. You’ll probably need to re-run it to make it palatable and reduce the chance of a wicked hangover.
I never use my hydrometer when looking for cuts. I’ve never found it to give me worthwhile information and it adds extra time to the process. I only use the hydrometer when proofing down or checking the ABV of low wines heading into the still for a spirit run.
After collecting all my keeper jars, I check the ABV of the total blend. I find when I’m making the same recipe over and over, the final ABV usually ends up being very close to the same.

silyrabit

This is how I do my cuts. 6oz in different mason jars spread out over 24 mason jars. Then let set for 2 days. What tasted good to me just ends up being the 80% to 65% most of the time.  When I do the teaspoon of spirit and a teaspoon of water the sting is there on all the cuts I sample.

Sonofliberty75

I've found that added sugar gives  a nasty bite/burn to the spirit, which I dont like,  that might be some of what you're tasting, but it could also come from heads if ya got any in what you're drinking. Try inverting your sugar that should help if that's all it is.

BrewinBrian44

If you’re getting stinging in all your cuts jars, you could be smearing heads throughout your run. When you’re collecting fores and heads, especially on a small boiler charge, you need to go slow. The distillate should feel light and powdery in your hands for heads. If it feels slightly oily, you’re smearing your hearts into your heads and also tails, wasting yield assuming you’d want to keep anything from a very smeared run. Once you’re clear of heads and stuff is tasting clean coming out the pipe, you can increase the power a little bit to add flavor for early tails into your hearts. The limit to the power increase can be found by rubbing the distillate in your hands and taking a sniff when the ethanol evaporates. If it smells like wet cardboard or dirty socks, you’re running too hard.
All this said, your situation happens to everyone when learning the hobby, myself included. You’ll get it down! Re-running is also another thing to learn. You might like the product more after another distillation. It’ll definitely be cleaner.

silyrabit

I don't understand, what is inverting sugar?
And how do you do it?

BrewinBrian44

I don't understand, what is inverting sugar?
And how do you do it?Sugar washes have what’s called “sugar bite.” It’s basically extra heat in the spirit. It mellows with time post distillation. The shape of the alcohol molecule is what causes it. As the shape of the molecule relaxes, it smooths out the drink. The stinging you’re describing is a different sensation.
Inverting sugar is done by boiling with an acid. It essentially makes the sugar more easy for the yeast to consume. I’ve never found the extra step necessary, but some swear by it. A healthy ferment is more important than inverting your sugar.

Sonofliberty75

I don't understand, what is inverting sugar?
And how do you do it?So  basically take your water and heat it up and then dump your sugar in it and and either some citric acid or lemon juice( not sure how much) then bring it to a simmer for about 20mins then dump in in with the rest of your mash or add it to your mash when its cooled down. Theres probably a section on HD thatll describe better on how to do it. I've never done it, I'm going AG now but that's how I've heard how to do it.

shadylane

app.php/googlesearch?cx=012980085383122 ... itesearch=
Personally, I think inverting sugar is a waste of time.
What I think is wrong with your recipe is the yeast is being stressed by too much backset.
Also, the backset is being used before the Alpha, that means the pH is too low for proper conversion.

Twisted-Brick

+1
At one time 25% backset was recommended, but we now know that much backset will make your mash prohibitively acidic. They're not really accurate, but ph strips can get you in the ball park as far as monitoring mash pH and how much backset you should really be using.  I use 1qt for 13gal all-grain mashes.
You don't specify the size of your cracked corn, but grinding it (ideally to a meal) will pay dividends in conversion rate and speed.  
Like yeast, enzymes perform best in their favorite conditions. It will help to review the recommended ideal temps and pH for your amylase and gluco.  Many members (including me) use SEB HTL amylase which works fastest at 180-190F and pH 5.6 - 6.5.“Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore, always carry a small snake.”
- W.C. Fields
My EZ Solder Shotgun
My Steam Rig and Manometer

NZChris

Can you point us to some relevant research, please?

Demy

I agree with shady, also try distilling your product again.

BrewinBrian44

Can you point us to some relevant research, please?viewtopic.php?t=74434

greggn

Not related to your issue of sting/bite but ...
Why are you using pectic enzyme ?

Why use Premiere Cuvee ?  Pitching at 90-100 is really pushing its temperature tolerance.________________
I drank fifty pounds of feed-store corn
'till my clothes were ratty and torn

silyrabit

Why are you using pectic enzymes?
It helps in the breaking down of fruit in a fruit mash, so it seems like it could only help in a corn mash.

Why use Premiere Cuvee ?  Pitching at 90-100 is really pushing its temperature tolerance.
The back of the package says the temp range is 95 - 100.

I

shadylane

Thats the temp used to rehydrate the yeast in plain water.
The yeast needs rehydrated in water, so its cell walls are functioning before getting any sugar.

silyrabit

If you’re getting stinging in all your cuts jars, you could be smearing heads throughout your run. When you’re collecting fores and heads, especially on a small boiler charge, you need to go slow. The distillate should feel light and powdery in your hands for heads. If it feels slightly oily, you’re smearing your hearts into your heads and also tails, wasting yield assuming you’d want to keep anything from a very smeared run. Once you’re clear of heads and stuff is tasting clean coming out the pipe, you can increase the power a little bit to add flavor for early tails into your hearts. The limit to the power increase can be found by rubbing the distillate in your hands and taking a sniff when the ethanol evaporates. If it smells like wet cardboard or dirty socks, you’re running too hard.I did think after the first couple of runs I was going too fast so I slowed it way down. I turned the heat down and I was collecting 6oz every 30 min. It took me a little over 8 hours to do the full run, but the sting was still in all the samples.
So now I'm thinking I'm going to try an all-corn mash with no added sugar, no backwash, and no faints from the last run and see what that produces. And maybe try a different yeast. The yeast I have laying around is Lalvin D47, Lalvin 71B, and Lalvin EC-1118.

greggn

There's no pectin in corn so there would be no pectinase enzyme activity.  Similarly, there's no benefit to adding alpha-amylase to a traditional mead ferment since there's no starch content in honey to convert.
There's no harm done but there's no benefit either.________________
I drank fifty pounds of feed-store corn
'till my clothes were ratty and torn

shadylane

What brand of Alpha and Gluco are you using?
With this info we can help figure out a good mash protocol for Ya.

Twisted-Brick

Give a read through the Tried and True section's 'all corn' and/or bourbon threads and follow them.  They are very good at getting specific results and will save you and others from untangling poor outcomes.
All the guidance you need on yeast, mash regimes, pH etc is also available here in the appropriate sections.“Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore, always carry a small snake.”
- W.C. Fields
My EZ Solder Shotgun
My Steam Rig and Manometer

Yummyrum

I think Salty is giving you good advice back here .
viewtopic.php?p=7735330#p7735330
I think a lot of your problems are coming from not being able to make good  cuts decisions because you aren’t diluting enough .
. If you haven’t seen it , check this out .
viewtopic.php?p=7500094#p7500094
Also drinking anything at 50%abv will sting your mouth IMO .
It’s your mouth telling you that it is being damaged .
Be sensible . Dilute your spirit . Mouth tongue and throat Cancer sounds like shit to me .My recommended goto .
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ion_Theory